Current Events

[summer007]

But when is right. One of my mentor's claimed their would be no fore-closures here. He said, "Were all college educated, we get it, we would know when to get out". The problem here is that Denial sets in and people try to save themselves, when its usually too late. summer.

[editor]

But when is right. One of my mentor's claimed their would be no fore-closures here. He said, "Were all college educated, we get it, we would know when to get out". The problem here is that Denial sets in and people try to save themselves, when its usually too late. summer.

Yeah, college educated people never:

declare bankruptcy
lose their keys
get divorced
join a cult.

As long as the people are college educated, we should be OK.   

[summer007]

What a Hoot!!! Well this is the arrogance one encounters on a daily basis, its quite amusing.( the well healed are envariblly safe)

[summer007]

oops..mis-spelled invariably. Intolerable.

[moonflower2]

First of all, I doubt you would even have a job if everything collapsed, a la 1929.  If that happened, it would be even worse today, because we rely far more on the government than we did then.  So riding to work would be a moot point. Nevertheless, I think you would find that motorcycles make more sense in that case.

That would be cool. I always wanted a motorcycle. For real.

As for sharing my home with someone else...I've done it before, and I'd do it again, but only by choice.  There is no way someone is going to take my home away from me by force if there is something I can do about it.  My neighbors would help me fight too.

I don't know that we would have a choice as to who lives in our homes, but I still think that the vines in your yard would never reach maturity.

I know the scenario is bleak.  I'm sure I don't have it all figured out, however the basic premise that someday our federal system will collapse is not conjecture...it is inevitable.

I agree with everything you've said here. It is only a matter of time.

You might even find that American teens actually enjoyed picking strawberries.

I think you will more likely find that they will be demanding, unwilling to work a "meanial" job that requires structured work hours. "Work for their food" when they can pick it off someone else's vine?? This attitude would be representative of many Americans.

Eventually we are going to get back to an ownership society, it's just a question of when and how.

I'd call it certain anarchy. Spoils go to the victor with the most amunition.

Brent

In your opinion, how would universities fare through all this?

Moonflower

[editor]

That would be cool. I always wanted a motorcycle. For real. I don't know that we would have a choice as to who lives in our homes, but I still think that the vines in your yard would never reach maturity.I agree with everything you've said here. It is only a matter of time.I think you will more likely find that they will be demanding, unwilling to work a "meanial" job that requires structured work hours. "Work for their food" when they can pick it off someone else's vine?? This attitude would be representative of many Americans.I'd call it certain anarchy. Spoils go to the victor with the most amunition.
In your opinion, how would universities fare through all this?

Moonflower

Universities?

Well, there is only one I know of that isn't publicly funded, Hillsdale College.   I guess they might be OK.

As to the others, I guess some of them could stay open.  Private money would be sought out to help, perhaps some corporations of foreign interests would also help out.  In the final analysis, there would be a ton of bloat and waste cut out of public education....no other option.

They might question that validity of certain course, like "women's studies," or "racism in America."  With limited dollars, perhaps classic education would come back into vogue.

This much I do know, as long as people need food, shelter and clothing, the Agricultural, Manufacturing based economy is where it's at.  We really don't need email or BB's....they are a luxury that I enjoy, but it's debateable how useful they are.

The main thing I would worry about is all the services like water, sewer, trash, etc.  There could be some real confusion in the short term.

Worst case scenario, a bunch of Sanitation workers get together and drive the trucks for barter...with or without the city's  blessing.  We are so totally dependent in every way imaginable that there are probably dozens of things I haven't even considered....it could be a real mess.

In the "blue" states, where the dense urban areas are, people need their food shipped in.   It could get really interesting in LA. 

This could all be years and years in the future, who knows?  Then again, weren't people wildly speculating in the market right before the crash?  Seems to me the buy-a-house-tear it down-build-a-bigger-one-and-sell-it-pronto thing is pretty wild speculation. 

My financial planner just got back from a big meeting and he said he was really wary about the market right now.  We may make some big changes.

Brent

[vernecarty]

We may make some big changes.

Brent

The trend is definitely down. I would not be surprised if it tests the 9K floor once more.
You should be charging for your insight on what are sensible stocks to own in this environment. 
Some of those sectors you mentioned are probably doublers for sure.
Look at what's going on  with many of the small renewable energy companies.
Everybody except us seems to be putting together a national strategy and these guys are making a killing overseas.
How interesting...
Verne
I hope it keeps falling on Monday for then I will know it is looking to test the bottom for sure.
If it bounces up at the opening, then I know the heavy hitters are trying to draw in the suckers...watch out!! 

[Recovering Saint]

The great attack of 9/11 according to one respected leader is People who believe their religion is right.

Tolerance and Relativity are creeping into the Church if I say I know for a fact that it is true the world says I am intolerant and judgemental. But if they call me a bigot or a hypocrite are they not judging me?

I heard a great teacher on the weekend. Don't shy away from difficult topics learn how to put the burden of proof on the accuser where it belongs.

I enjoyed it so much I thought you would like to check it out for yourselves.

Hugh

http://www.str.org/cgi-bin/daily_commentary.pl

Gregory Koukl

For any knowledge at all to be possible there must be true things and there must be false things.

Main website. You will have to register if you want to enjoy all the resources. I heard Gregory Koukl this weekend and He is the best I have ever heard on how to give an answer to people on all the tough questions facing Christians today.

http://www.str.org/index.htm

[enchilada]

I've grown weary of people running around saying that human civilization and technology is responsible for global warming.  I finally got tired of thinking that they may have a point and did a little research in hope of proving them wrong, while also finding additional reasons to enjoy some of the habits that they claim are causing the polar caps to melt.

I've concluded that much the articles regarding the issue of global warming is hype from alarmists and extremists, and tend to be devoid of rational scientific thinking.  Their claim that humans are to blame for the alleged depletion of the ozone layer is ridiculous and disturbing.  The reason is because the greenhouse gasses are naturally occuring. The major gases in the atmosphere that keep us warm and protect us from having weather like the moon's are: carbon dioxide, hydrocarbons, and methane. The alarmists have claimed that the cars, power plants, refrigerators, aerosol spray cans, tree harvesting, etc is causing global warming, or at least significantly causing it.  Here are some stats which indicate otherwise: 

Termites:
The largest single source of greenhouse gases are termites.  They are responsible for 45,000,000,000 tons of carbon dioxide and hydrocarbons each year.  This is 10 times more than what is produced by the burning of fossil fuels.

Volcanoes:
Estimates of the air polluting materials that were released from the eruptions of Mts.: Krakatoa, Katmi, and Helka are many times more than the amount released by humans since the beginning.  Krakatoa's last eruption caused the global temperature to drop 0.3C.

Deforestation:
Mature trees and old growth forests remove 4.5-6.5 tons less of carbon dioxide per acre per year from the atmoshere than youger growing trees.  I guess this puts the tree huggers that are concerned about glogal warming in a dillema.

Chlorofluorocarbons (CFC's):
The changes in the amount of ozone appear to be related to the production of chlorides and nitrous oxides.  Chloride ions are injected into the atmosphere continously by natural processes.  For example, the eruption of Mt. St. Augustine in Alaska in 1976 released 290,000,000 tons of hydrochloric acid directly into the atmosphere.  That's almost 600 times the total world production of chlorine and CFC's in 1975.  Here's another:  Mt. Erebus in Antarctica has been erupting almost constantly for the last 100 years, injecting 900 tons of chlorine per day (perhaps that's causing ozone hole down there).  One more point: the oceans release 270,000,000 tone of chlorine each year through the evaporation of water.  The highest annual artificial production of chlorine was about 680,000tons per year.  Does this mean that humans really have an impact on global warming.  I think not.

So, why are some the leading scientists claiming that humans are responsible for global warming?  It appears that they are incorrect in their assertion that humans cause global warming, and that it's likely that they have some doubts about that.  So then why are they pushing this idea.  Perhaps it's an excuse for getting grant money: academic welfare to finance their livelihoods or something.  I guess that if somebody spends their entire career studying global warming under the presumption that humans cause it, and have become experts on securing grant money for thir experiments and then taking the annual vacation to exotic resorts where conferences are held for them to present their papers, it's difficult to retract.   

Now there's no reason for anybody to feel guilty driving a gas guzzler, cutting trees, or eating at McDonalds. 

[al Hartman]

Dan, until your latest post on this thread I thought you were a pretty sharp guy, but you're really missing the boat on this issue.  I'll try to respond to your points in order:

1. Termites are the largest single source of greenhouse gases.  And who do you suppose builds all the houses that the termites infest?  Out of wood?  DUH!!!

2.  Volcanoes as a source of gases.  There have always been volcanoes, so why has it become a bigger problem now than before?  People!  They have stopped throwing in sacrifices to keep the volcanoes happy!

3.  Deforestation: New trees cleanse the air of more CO2 than old trees.  OK, but people used up all the old trees and haven't finished building, so now they're cutting down all the new trees!  (This ain't rocket surgery!)

4.  CFCs produced from volcanoes (see #2, above) and from the oceans where all the highly-chlorinated water ends up that was drained from a few hundred gazillion people's swimming pools!!!

That should resolve your lame arguments, Dan'l.  Now here's the clincher-- the real reason that the human race is responsible for global warming:  they keep reproducing!  OK, it's not just that, but reproduction of the human race combined with a marked decline in family discipline has resulted in a generation of unruly kids that will go outdoors in the dead of winter, while the household heating units are running full blast, and leave the door wide open!  We are heating the entire atmosphere and we have the utility bills to prove it!

al

[vernecarty]

The scientific community is not nearly as divided as it used to be about global warming. While you may see the perspective Dan presented in popular literature, the scientific literature is pretty much in agreement. The polar caps are indeed melting and the ocean levels are rising. Another very strange effect is that changing rainfall patterns are resulting in increasing evaporation in tropical regions (with increasing salinity), and subsequent alterations in flow and density in other regions. What has still not been fully established are the causal relationships but things do seem to be getting hotter.
Verne

[editor]

The scientific community is not nearly as divided as it used to be about global warming. While you may see the perspective Dan presented in popular literature, the scientific literature is pretty much in agreement. The poalr caps are indeed melting and the ocean levels are rising. Another very strange effect is that changing rainfall patterns are resulting in increasing evaporation in tropical regions (with increasing salinity), and subsequent alterations in flow and density in other regions. What has still not been fully established are the causal relationships but things do seem to be getting hotter.
Verne

If you want to find out when global warming started, and when the polar ice-caps began to melt, you must go back to the ice-age.

Back then, all Europe and much of North America was covered in glaciers.  There were so many campfires and bad forestry practices that the icecaps began to melt.

That is when global warming started, and look how bad it's gotten!

Yes, the earth is getting warmer, and the icecaps are melting.  However, this didn't just start since the industrial revolution.  EVERY scientist agrees that the icecaps have been melting for a long time.  However, POLITCAL scientists are divided over the reason why.

Simple logic tells us that the melt has been ongoing since long before CFC's, internal combustion engines and Amazon deforestation.  In fact, I submit that when there were ice caps everywhere, there were fewer trees....

Global warming is a fact. 

Laying the blame on America, and the last 100 years is silly.

Brent

[moonflower2]

Cleaning out the attic again, I came across something that you can all bid on: A purple, and I do mean people-eater purple, bulletin-sized flyer for the Midwest Seminar 1991. If I recall correctly, the first meeting for this one was held at a place other than the infamous Lincoln Hall, and I couldn't really get into any of the lectures. I felt like I was in a time-warp the entire time.

And now, what you've all really been waiting for: THE TITLE:

                                                 A CALL TO REALITY.

Was he trying to convince himself?

Best Offer takes it.

[al Hartman]

I bid a book of matches and a can of lighter fluid.

[enchilada]

Dan, until your latest post on this thread I thought you were a pretty sharp guy,

Thanks Al, you've earned a few points by flattering me by believing that I was smart until my last post. 

but you're really missing the boat on this issue.

I used to work on fishing boats in Alaska, and have had enough of them.  I don't miss boats at all.

I'll try to respond to your points in order

I'll order a bacon double cheeseburger, and a beer--Coors extra gold.  Burp!

1. Termites are the largest single source of greenhouse gases.  And who do you suppose builds all the houses that the termites infest?  Out of wood?  DUH!!!

I've never built a house without a termite shield beneath the sill plate.  But I'll bet Jimmy Carter built a bunch of them without any kind of shield against termites.  Given how he and all the other democrats tend to mess things up, houses would certainly not be an exception during his Habitat for Termites, oops, Humanity gig.  Anyway, I'm no expert on termites, with the exception of knowing that people like George Geftakys are termites.  However, I do know that most of them do not live in houses. 
 

2.  Volcanoes as a source of gases.  There have always been volcanoes, so why has it become a bigger problem now than before?  People!  They have stopped throwing in sacrifices to keep the volcanoes happy!

We know who a major source of gas is, but I'll refrain from going there.  But on a serious note, human activity, even now, is minimal compared to volcanoes. 

3.  Deforestation: New trees cleanse the air of more CO2 than old trees.  OK, but people used up all the old trees and haven't finished building, so now they're cutting down all the new trees!  (This ain't rocket surgery!)

4.  CFCs produced from volcanoes (see #2, above) and from the oceans where all the highly-chlorinated water ends up that was drained from a few hundred gazillion people's swimming pools!!!]

There are a lot more trees than you seem to recognize. The timber companies in the United States have had a very active program of reforestation.  The average annual growth is more than three times what it was in 1920 and increased 18% from 1952 to 1977.  Trees are like hay:  use them or lose them--in our case to the termites, myriad other insects, forest fires, tree huggers (the spikes they drive into them kill the trees in addition to the loggers), mudslides, volcanoes (remember St Helens killing all those poor trees, if you were around then?!).

That should resolve your lame arguments, Dan'l. 

Al, your points are spotted with entertaining prose.  

Now here's the clincher-- the real reason that the human race is responsible for global warming:  they keep reproducing!  OK, it's not just that, but reproduction of the human race combined with a marked decline in family discipline has resulted in a generation of unruly kids that will go outdoors in the dead of winter, while the household heating units are running full blast, and leave the door wide open!  We are heating the entire atmosphere and we have the utility bills to prove it!

al

As you know, the earth is essentially a greenhouse because of our atmosphere.  If not, the earth's surface ad weather would be like the moon's: -170C at night and +100C at day.  I mentioned the major gases that protect us from these extreme temperatures.  Historically, there is no good or widely accepted explanation for why the earth's temperature and climate were as they were at any particular point in time.  No one knows what caused the ice ages and the warm periods in between.  No one knows what caused the "little ice age" of the late 17th and early 18th centuies, which was preceded by nearly a century of warming.  However, it is pretty clear that humans and industrialization did not cause those warming periods.  I havn't mentioned the universe's effect on earth....many scientists argue that global warming is due to changes in the sun rather than greenhouse gases.  Then there's the 80ppm increase in CO2 during a 100 year period 300 years ago.  I don't think humans caused that either.  Overall, I find that the proponents of the man-produced-greenhouse-gases-cause-global-warming Theory have not scientifically proven anything that compells me to trade in my pickup truck for a horse and buggy.