Current Events

[al Hartman]

(Continued from previous post)

For the first time, I stepped away from my latte, faced my denial about this company and started to do some serious soul searching – I needed to find out what they really supported. Fortunately, I didn't have to search very long because I have the Internet at my fingertips and one of the nation's top experts, Robert Knight, just down the hall from me.

Less than 30 minutes of research revealed the following:

--Robert Knight told me that about 10 years ago, Starbucks started sponsoring these types of events, but backed off when conservatives started putting on the pressure. He explained that it is apparent they are slowly working their way back into the "gay" movement.

--Starbucks is listed on the Planned Parenthood website under this introduction:

The following companies all generously match employee donations to Planned Parenthood Federation of America. If your employer is on this list, then you can make your gift go as much as twice as far.

--Seattle, Wash., held "Gay Pride" events last month where, according to the newspaper, Seattle Post Intelligence Reporter:

About 75 Starbucks employees will march in the parade and will wear T-shirts in rainbow colors with the word "PRIDE" on the front ... A van from the coffee company will follow them. On Capitol Hill tomorrow, Starbucks employees at the company's three stores there will pass out samples of Mint Mocha Chip Frappuccino.

The marketing director for Starbucks in Washington explained: "We're committed to supporting things that matter to our employees and our customers."

--Several conservatives are upset already by Starbucks' fairly new "The way I see it campaign," which prints quotes from actors, artists, etc., on the outside of their paper cups. By visiting their website and reading some of the quotes, it's easy to see why there has been this big brouhaha – nearly all of them are liberal celebrities.

The list does go on, but in a nutshell – Starbucks has a corporate policy of supporting the homosexual agenda by sponsoring "Pride" events all over the country -- events where children will be exposed to sexually explicit materials and pedophiles as well as the extremely liberal and pro-abortion Planned Parenthood. This might be a good time to add that the owner of Starbucks made a large donation to a liberal candidate's campaign.

So what do I do now?

I am not a big fan of boycotts. A friend once told me if we boycotted everything we disagreed with, we would be naked and hungry. I've also heard something like, "It doesn't matter what's on the cup, but what's in it." I love Starbucks coffee and as I worked through this problem, I wasn't about to give up without a fight – and I didn't give up, but rather, I failed miserably.

I overestimated, but discovered that if I drink five grande lattes a week for a year, the total number of lattes would equal 260, coming to a total cost of $1,040. So, in my four post-college years, I could have contributed as much as $4,160 to a company that supports the volunteer work of child abusers, "Pride" events, abortionists, and do I really need to go on? Back to that marketing director's quote: "We're committed to supporting things that matter to our employees and our customers." Um ... HELLO, I am a customer, too!

As I was searching the Internet, I saw a link to a site with words no Christian girl should repeat. I didn't have to enter to read this: "Folks, if Starbucks is 'too liberal' for you then don't buy their @#$# percent*# coffee."

Thanks for the tip! "Folks," what you do is up to you, but as for me and my habit, I will no longer support Starbucks.

Yes, I started as a Starbucks coffee snob, but I am very open-minded now – if you know any good coffee houses, please let me know!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Meghan Kleppinger is assistant to the national field director at Concerned Women for America[/i]]Concerned Women for America.

[Recovering Saint]

Al

You need to get with the program. Tim Hortons Coffee is with Wendy's now and supports children in need. What more can I say. Grab a Wendy burger and a Timmy's coffee (double double (two sugar and two cream 18%)) and a plain old fashion donut BAKED not fried lower in fat than the other donut shop you all visit. Tim's coffee is less expensive and tastes smoother than Starbucks too. Now you can help kids too.

http://www.timhortons.com/en/childrens/index.html

Hugh 

[vernecarty]

Does anyones else think it ironic that the question of whether the parents of a minor seeking an abortion should be notified, is being argued before the Supreme Court? The ACLU has pinned all its hopes on the transparent loophole of the "health" of the minor but the justices do not seem to be buying it. I suppose in one sense the entire point is moot. If a minor is seeking an abortion without the parents' knowledge, isn't that a little late to be seeking the involvement of the parents? 
Verne

[outdeep]

If a minor is seeking an abortion without the parents' knowledge, isn't that a little late to be seeking the involvement of the parents? 

Yes and no.  I do consider myself very involed in both my boy's lives.  However, even with that, when they reach adolescents I found the saying to be true that I only really know about 10% of what is really going on in their lives.  I feel fairly good about the other 90% based upon the 10% that I see but there is nothing keeping them from pulling the wool over my eyes as I can't follow them around 24/7.  So I am very happy when school officials, other parents, etc. let me know about things that I may not have otherwise have onto.

As for the ACLU, I am in complete agreement though I am impressed with their consistant record of being on the wrong side of the issue in the majority of their cases.

[al Hartman]

If a minor is seeking an abortion without the parents' knowledge, isn't that a little late to be seeking the involvement of the parents? 

Verne

Verne, from all you have posted, your attitude toward parenthood seems exemplary.  But your best intentions and efforts can never prevent your having to face the situation you allude to above.  We may love our kids intensely and would willingly die for them, but we still "ain't all that!"

God's grace alone can and will save our children from the cesspool of the world, the desires of the flesh and the devil's lies.  Far above and beyond whatever example we may show them and instruction we may provide, the greatest service we can give our kids is our prayers for them and our faith, trust and hope in Christ on their behalf.

I don't think I'm telling you anything new, but I believe it should be said plainly for all who read here:  Our evaluations of other parents, their children, and even the judges who sit on the Supreme Court may be valid, or not, but our prayers and our testimony of faith in Christ by our lives and our words are the best possible response we have.  Only He can effect the changes needed.  And because of that, it is never too late.

al

[vernecarty]

The greatest test of my faith has to do with the destiny of my children.
I have struggled mightily with the sobering question of how much that depends on me.
I am inclined to believe that it depends more on us parents than we are sometimes willing to accept.
There is nothing that strikes fear in my heart (and there is not much that does) as the possibility that by my own negligence I would cause spiritual harm to my own off-spring.
I must confess to being greatly conflicted about this, for while know God is faithful, each person has freedom of will.
Every chance I get to do so, I pose the question to men I consider of spiritual stature the question of why some seeming Godly parents produce children that go so far astray.
In some cases God eventually gets recovery as in such parents as Billy Graham and Jim Cymbala.
Even a man like John Piper has been tested in this way.
Even the godliest parents in hindsight point to mistakes they have made in this regard as a contributing reason - most commonly allowing ministry obligations to outweigh those of family.
Jim Cymbala in a very powerful message about his daughter's departure and recovery confesses : " I took my eyes off her..."
I can safely say that there has been no greater restraint in my own life, than the awesome sense of fatherly obligation I have to my two precious gifts from heaven. May the Eternal Father direct their steps...

Yes and no.  I do consider myself very involed in both my boy's lives.  However, even with that, when they reach adolescents I found the saying to be true that I only really know about 10% of what is really going on in their lives.  I feel fairly good about the other 90% based upon the 10% that I see but there is nothing keeping them from pulling the wool over my eyes as I can't follow them around 24/7.  So I am very happy when school officials, other parents, etc. let me know about things that I may not have otherwise have onto.

As for the ACLU, I am in complete agreement though I am impressed with their consistant record of being on the wrong side of the issue in the majority of their cases.

I have been told my many that know more about this than I that the battle for our kids hearts and minds is over by age twelve...

Verne

[outdeep]

I have been told my many that know more about this than I that the battle for our kids hearts and minds is over by age twelve...

I'm not sure I quite see it like that.  I don't think it is over by age twelve, just different.  When they are younger, you parent by saynig "we are leaving now, get in the car".  Children are taught to be obedient to what we say.  Twelve to eighteen is a transitional period where we move them from being under our absolute authority to making their own decisions.  They want to be independant and ultimately we do too.

This is a scary period because if you give them the power to make a decision (e.g., they can go downtown with friends alone and decide what they want to do), they have the power to make a bad decision as well as a good one and you hope that you gave them the groundwork to make good ones.  But, if you give them the freedom to make a decision, you really can't control what they decide.  You can only hold them accountable for the fallout.

One big problem I saw with childtraining in the Assembly is that for many, there wasn't this transitional period where kids could make their own decisions (no you can't go out for sports because you will miss the meetings).  As a result, I saw kids who either 1) out'a here when I'm 18
2) didn't know how to make a decision  3) Passively comformed  4) rebelled against everything and went wild  (Of course there are many exceptions).

So, 12-18 are indeed teachable years.  It's just different.  You give them enough rope to succeed or blow it but enough restraint so that they don't totally mess up their lives.  Then you allow them to see that they are responsible for the consequences of their choices.  (Remember, when they make bad decisions, its their problem, not your problem).

I am happy to say that both of my boys blew it big time at the 7th-9th grade years.  I supported them as they faced the consequences of their actions.  "It's better felt than telt" was indeed true in these circumstances.  Both grew up to be much more responsible as a result.  My youngest especially learned what it means to work to regain trust.

I have seen other kids who did fine through 12th grade in a very structured environment.  When they because 18 and out from under their parents thumbs, they went wild and their parents were powerless to help because they no longer held the car keys.

So, in short, twelve may signal the end of the "authoritarian" stage but it signals the beginning of the mentoring years.

[vernecarty]

I'm not sure I quite see it like that.  I don't think it is over by age twelve, just different. 

I think the larger point was that you cannot wait until that age to initiate instruction. For the most part, the world view of a youngster has pretty much jelled at that age. How they make decisions will very much depend on their world view and at that point it is really too late to start trying to shape and influence it. Not that great kids don't make mistakes, but we absolutely have to understand what is at stake at start very early indeed. Point well taken though.

One big problem I saw with childtraining in the Assembly is that for many, there wasn't this transitional period where kids could make their own decisions (no you can't go out for sports because you will miss the meetings).  As a result, I saw kids who either 1) out'a here when I'm 18
2) didn't know how to make a decision  3) Passively comformed  4) rebelled against everything and went wild  (Of course there are many exceptions).

Are you kidding? There wasn't a transitional period even for the adults! 
It was  really remarkable to see the way grown men and women, some with families, allowed themselves to be treated. I feel badly for some of the "arranged" marriages...

So, 12-18 are indeed teachable years.  It's just different.  You give them enough rope to succeed or blow it but enough restraint so that they don't totally mess up their lives.  Then you allow them to see that they are responsible for the consequences of their choices.  (Remember, when they make bad decisions, its their problem, not your problem).

I by and large agree that this is the time when you begin to see the application of world view to decision-making.
For many parents and young teens it is a time of growth and increase in maturity with plenty mis-steps along the way. For far too many, Christian kids no exception, it is a time of lamentable  destruction of potential.

I am happy to say that both of my boys blew it big time at the 7th-9th grade years.  I supported them as they faced the consequences of their actions.  "It's better felt than telt" was indeed true in these circumstances.  Both grew up to be much more responsible as a result.  My youngest especially learned what it means to work to regain trust.

I think you've got to stick with them through failure - if they are indeed learning from mistakes

I have seen other kids who did fine through 12th grade in a very structured environment.  When they because 18 and out from under their parents thumbs, they went wild and their parents were powerless to help because they no longer held the car keys.

So, in short, twelve may signal the end of the "authoritarian" stage but it signals the beginning of the mentoring years.

We have made it a habit to start giving them choices early on and lettting them live with the consequences...it works very well...
Verne

[al Hartman]

As one of several (perhaps numerous) posters whose adult children are not following Christ, I have to agree with Dave's assessment.  The battle for our children's hearts and minds is never over, but it moves to different stages as they age.  At the same time, I fully agree with Verne that the deepest of concern and sincerest of effort should have begun even before conception.  But I mean for those who have missed early opportunities to not lose heart-- your situations will be different, but right now is always the right time to begin.

I should note for others' benefit that I was a mess and completely irresponsible for my children's spiritual guidance during their formative years, so I have no experience upon which to draw regarding those stages.  But, having been restored to faith in Christ after all four kids had left home, I have rejoined the struggle at a different level.

I believe the principle works like this:  The more control we exercise in any given situation, the less we are aware of our utter need for Christ's mercy and grace.  In child-rearing, we move up the scale from controlling by use of "time-outs," to deciding the homework-to-play ratio, to curfew and use of the family car.  And, if we are wise, we see our influence gradually changing from irresistable command to merely that of example.  But that is only our visible influence...

The kids may not know it, but as we relinquish direct control of their lives to them, we must increase our commitment to prayer, both directly regarding the situations of their lives, and for ourselves, that we may be faithful witnesses, examples and intercessors on their behalf.

My words to the parents on this board must be interpreted by each according to your situations and those of your children.  If you have youngsters, pay close attention to Verne-- ask him questions-- learn from him.  Likewise, if you have teens/young adults, seek out such parents as Dave.

Grownup kids (larger people into their mid-20s and beyond) present the broadest spectrum.  I know people on this board whose adult children love Christ, and those whose kids are into every sort of confusion and self-destructive behavior.  These latter parents have come to know that their deliberate efforts toward guiding their progeny are now extremely limited in effect.  May this awareness serve to strengthen our resolve to live for Christ ourselves, and to storm heaven with our prayers for them.

Ultimately, nothing has really changed, from their infancy to their adulthood.  All is dependent upon the grace and mercy of the Lord.  All of the personal resposibility we bear toward their upbringing and their salvation reduces down to this: we must trust Christ for the fruit of our labors, or else they are in vain.

Do your absolute best, but never expect to stand before God and say, "I did my best."  Rather, when we have learned that at our very best we are but unprofitable servants, then we may begin to truly trust in Him for the fruits of our labors.

al

[Oscar]

Folks,

Seems to me that there is something to keep in mind here.  We made our own decisions to come to Christ.  We didn't do it because our folks wanted us to.  Some folks had Christian parents who prayed for them.  Others had no one who prayed for their salvation or exemplefied Christian living before them.

I think the most important aspect of Christian training for the teenage years is that the parents themselves practice what they preach. 

Even then there is no guarantee.  I know a dear brother at my church, (one of the pastor's) who I greatly respect.  He has an adult daughter.  Growing up, she professed Christ, was baptised, was a leader in her high school and college ministries.  She witnessed and discipled others.  She went on short-term mission trips.

Then she met an unsaved guy, married him, had a kid, divorced him, met another guy, is living with him out of wedlock.

In the assembly, GG and BG taught that WE were the determiners of of our kids destinies.  Their kids were held up as the example of this "truth."   You know how that turned out.   

Blessings,

Thomas Maddux

[outdeep]

I think the larger point was that you cannot wait until that age to initiate instruction. For the most part, the world view of a youngster has pretty much jelled at that age.

I see what you're saying.  Absolutely true.

-Dave

[vernecarty]

Even then there is no guarantee.  I know a dear brother at my church, (one of the pastor's) who I greatly respect.  He has an adult daughter.  Growing up, she professed Christ, was baptised, was a leader in her high school and college ministries.  She witnessed and discipled others.  She went on short-term mission trips.

Then she met an unsaved guy, married him, had a kid, divorced him, met another guy, is living with him out of wedlock.


Blessings,

Thomas Maddux

I know of cases like this and I find them quite sobering.
I wonder what kind of advice she got about her marriage to an unsaved person? I know her father labors on his knees for her repentance.

Christians who do this absolutely astonish me. Read the stats.
I heard one former pastor try to use the story of Esther to excuse his daughter seeing an unsaved boyfriend.
At the time I did not have the guts to tell him that he was an idiot.

On a lighter note, I was at home with my nine year old Anna today and we were watching the Revenge of the Sith together.
As I usually do with kissing scenes, I said loudly as Anakin kissed the princess: "No kissing like that unless you are married!"
My daughter quickly assured me that they were, and I said: "How do you know?"
A few seconds later in the scene the princess announced that she was pregnant and my daughter stated tirumphantly:
"See Daddy, she's pregnant, and she can't be pregnant unless they are married!"

I of course said: "You are absolutely right honey!"

My heart leapt and ached at the same time as  I wondered:

"How long will her innocence last?"    
Verne

[soul dreamer]

    I was at home with my nine year old Anna today and we were watching the Revenge of the Sith together.
    As I usually do with kissing scenes, I said loudly as Anakin kissed the princess: "No kissing like that unless you are married!"
    My daughter quickly assured me that they were, and I said: "How do you know?"
    A few seconds later in the scene the princess announced that she was pregnant and my daughter stated tirumphantly:
    "See Daddy, she's pregnant, and she can't be pregnant unless they are married!"
     I of course said: "You are absolutely right honey!"

When I come home from work at night I often passionately kiss my wife in front of my 4 kids aged 5 to 9.  Sometimes I tell my kids that one of the greatest blessings of being married to their mother is that we sleep together, get warm under the blankets together, and sometimes we even wrestle under the covers without any clothes on.  Then I tell them that if people do these things without being married that in most cases the people are doing the sin of fornication, or if one of them is married already to someone else it is the doubly bad sin of adultery.  (I say in most cases because my kids also know that in the ancient Eskimo culture, the whole family slept naked between the animal skins in one igloo as a matter of survival; although incest and fornication probably abounded, it is possible that some of the Eskimos had an innocent conscience.)

My kids do not yet know all the details to life in the marriage bed, but they know that if a woman gets into bed with a man, she might become pregnant even if the couple is not married.  And if we are watching a movie where someone is passionately kissing, sometimes my girls are even faster than I am in exhorting out loud to the TV screen, “Hey, no kissing like that until you are married!”

Rick

[Elizabeth H]

When I come home from work each night I passionately kiss my wife in front of my 4 kids aged 5 to 9.  Sometimes I tell my kids that one of the greatest blessings of being married to their mother is that we sleep together, get warm under the blankets together, and sometimes we even wrestle under the covers without any clothes on.  Then I tell them that if people do these things without being married that in most cases the people are doing the sin of fornication, or if one of them is married already to someone else it is the doubly bad sin of adultery.  (I say in most cases because my kids also know that in the ancient Eskimo culture, the whole family slept naked between the animal skins in one igloo as a matter of survival; although incest and fornication probably abounded, it is possible that some of the Eskimos had an innocent conscience.)


Rick

 
Wrestling, Eskimos & the doubly bad sin of adultery--- LOL! Oh-my-GOSH! I've read this post like three times and each time I burst into laughter! Rick, I know you probably meant it in a very serious, holy and edifying manner---but I just cannot read this without cracking up!! Good stuff, Rick! LOL.

[Oscar]

Dave,

So, in short, twelve may signal the end of the "authoritarian" stage but it signals the beginning of the mentoring years.

The mentoring years keep rolling on.  Our kids are 37, 35, 33, and 26 now.  We are still "Mom and Dad" but the relationships have evolved as the years have passed.   I guess I would say we are the "mentorfriends" now.  We are friends with all our kids and can enjoy good times with them, but now and then we get into serious conversations where we are sounded out for any words to the wise that we might have.

I learned from Charles Stanley's book "How to Keep Your Kids on Your Team" that one of the most important aspects of parenting as your kids attain independence is to be their cheering section.  They usually don't ask us how to run their lives, just as we did not ask our parents when we were young adults.  But when they choose a path for themselves, we should support them in it if at all possible.  I am speaking primarily of moral support, but sometimes a little $$ is appreciated too. 

(I do not, however, believe in supporting adolescent dependency in young adults.  Freedom and responsibility are two sides of the same coin)

Accordingly, we are driving over to Tucson, Aridzona tomorrow to attend a picnic at the Fireman's Academy on Sunday.  Our baby, Stephen, is a student in said Academy.  He and his classmates will demonstrate their newly learned skills for us. 

He called me the other day and said, "I know you won't be able to be there but I just thought I'd let you know."  (I am pretty sure that means, "I wish you could be there." )  I think it is VERY important to demonstrate love, (and pride), by attending all their events we can. 

So, I'll be there, God willing.  Caryl too.  I'll "see" you folks next week.

Blessings.

Thomas Maddux
Undercomer