Interesting Similarities

[outdeep]

From World Magazine
http://www.worldmag.com/subscriber/displayarticle.cfm?id=10454

'On probation with God'


High-profile acts of violence and surrender in two cities may have been the outworking of divergent theologies. In Atlanta, Ashley Smith delivered a gospel of grace to alleged courthouse killer Brian Nichols, winning her own freedom, his surrender, and probably saving more lives. But in Milwaukee, church-goer Terry Ratzmann opened fire on fellow members of a Living Church of God (LCOG) congregation, killing seven, including Pastor Randy Gregory and his son James, 16.

While a stunned community searched for answers in Milwaukee, some former members of Herbert Armstrong's Worldwide Church of God, an authoritarian cult from which the LCOG splintered, were not surprised at the murders. At the website of the cult-recovery group Exit and Support Network, several former members posted messages saying they were more surprised such violence hadn't happened before.

LCOG broke off from the WCG after the latter group turned from coercive and authoritarian "Armstrongism" to embrace orthodox Christian teaching such as salvation by grace. LCOG doctrine now mainly mirrors Armstrongism, mixing Jehovah's Witness–style "works" theology with Old Testament legalism, onerous tithes, and sometimes complete ministerial control over members' life decisions, particularly financial ones.

"These people are subjected to incredible pressures to perform 'works' . . . [and] are always unsure of their status before God," said Bill Hohmann, a former WCG member for more than 25 years who now works to "deprogram" others who leave that and similar groups. "If you have to live . . . every day, wondering if you are good enough . . . [under] a ministry that constantly emphasizes you are on probation with God, then you can see how there is no surprise. There have been quite a number of suicides in these groups. The pressure is enormous."

Mr. Hohmann did not minimize Mr. Ratzmann's responsibility for his own actions and noted that some LCOG ministers really are trying to serve their members. But, he said, "they are still expected to guide the members with a stick."

It is unclear what kind of control, if any, Randy Gregory exerted over his congregation, but Brookfield police Capt. Phil Horter told the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, "We believe that [Mr. Ratzmann's] motive has something to do with the church and the church services, more so than any other possible motive."

Police are focusing on a Feb. 26 incident in which Mr. Ratzmann was scheduled to deliver the closing prayer. Instead, he walked out early after hearing a sermon on how bad circumstances befall people who make ungodly choices. Three years ago, Mr. Ratzmann lost a job he loved, and friends describe him as a lonely man who resented still being single at age 44.

The teaching that only sinners catch life's bad breaks flies in the face of orthodox Christian teaching on the nature of God, said Concordia University of Wisconsin theology professor Timothy Maschke. He noted that most media aren't identifying LCOG as a cultish offshoot of Christianity, but instead as a small Christian denomination. But the group's publications teach that "Christ forgave our past sins, but now we have to get our [own] acts together," Mr. Maschke said. "That's a far cry from the Christian faith that Christ has saved us by grace alone."

- by Lynn Vincent —•

[editor]

From World Magazine
http://www.worldmag.com/subscriber/displayarticle.cfm?id=10454

'On probation with God'


High-profile acts of violence and surrender in two cities may have been the outworking of divergent theologies. In Atlanta, Ashley Smith delivered a gospel of grace to alleged courthouse killer Brian Nichols, winning her own freedom, his surrender, and probably saving more lives. But in Milwaukee, church-goer Terry Ratzmann opened fire on fellow members of a Living Church of God (LCOG) congregation, killing seven, including Pastor Randy Gregory and his son James, 16.

While a stunned community searched for answers in Milwaukee, some former members of Herbert Armstrong's Worldwide Church of God, an authoritarian cult from which the LCOG splintered, were not surprised at the murders. At the website of the cult-recovery group Exit and Support Network, several former members posted messages saying they were more surprised such violence hadn't happened before.

LCOG broke off from the WCG after the latter group turned from coercive and authoritarian "Armstrongism" to embrace orthodox Christian teaching such as salvation by grace. LCOG doctrine now mainly mirrors Armstrongism, mixing Jehovah's Witness–style "works" theology with Old Testament legalism, onerous tithes, and sometimes complete ministerial control over members' life decisions, particularly financial ones.

"These people are subjected to incredible pressures to perform 'works' . . . [and] are always unsure of their status before God," said Bill Hohmann, a former WCG member for more than 25 years who now works to "deprogram" others who leave that and similar groups. "If you have to live . . . every day, wondering if you are good enough . . . [under] a ministry that constantly emphasizes you are on probation with God, then you can see how there is no surprise. There have been quite a number of suicides in these groups. The pressure is enormous."

Mr. Hohmann did not minimize Mr. Ratzmann's responsibility for his own actions and noted that some LCOG ministers really are trying to serve their members. But, he said, "they are still expected to guide the members with a stick."

It is unclear what kind of control, if any, Randy Gregory exerted over his congregation, but Brookfield police Capt. Phil Horter told the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, "We believe that [Mr. Ratzmann's] motive has something to do with the church and the church services, more so than any other possible motive."

Police are focusing on a Feb. 26 incident in which Mr. Ratzmann was scheduled to deliver the closing prayer. Instead, he walked out early after hearing a sermon on how bad circumstances befall people who make ungodly choices. Three years ago, Mr. Ratzmann lost a job he loved, and friends describe him as a lonely man who resented still being single at age 44.

The teaching that only sinners catch life's bad breaks flies in the face of orthodox Christian teaching on the nature of God, said Concordia University of Wisconsin theology professor Timothy Maschke. He noted that most media aren't identifying LCOG as a cultish offshoot of Christianity, but instead as a small Christian denomination. But the group's publications teach that "Christ forgave our past sins, but now we have to get our [own] acts together," Mr. Maschke said. "That's a far cry from the Christian faith that Christ has saved us by grace alone."

- by Lynn Vincent —•

The title of your post says it all, Dave.

I am surprised that there hasn't been something crazy from San Francisco yet.  Oh well, give it time.  LCOG broke off more than a decade ago.

Brent

[editor]

Here's on short article on David Koresh and the Branch Davidians:

http://www.watchman.org/cults/sda.htm

On another search, I came across this.

August 5, 1989
Howell teaches the "new light" doctrine of 1989 while staying in the Pomona, California home of Donald and Jeanine Bunds. The "new light" makes Howell the rightful husband of all the women in the group, including those who are married. Husbands and wives are separated and the wives become part of Howell's army.

August-September 1989
March Breault and his wife, Elizabeth, leave the group and begin a letter-writing campaign to alert their friends to the fact that Howell is a false teacher.

1989-1990
Most of the Australian and New Zealand members break away from Howell.

Spring 1990
Vernon Howell changes his name to David Koresh.
 
What I see is that once the fringe group fractures off into an even fringier group, headed by a clearly immoral leader, nothing but trouble comes.  This is an extremely common story, well documented in hundreds of instances on RickRoss and elsewhere.

What I find interesting is the part about the couple starting a letter writing campaign to alert their friends that Howell was teaching false doctrine.  DUH!  Ya think? False?  Really?  It is so easy to see that they were complete nuts well in advance of the letter writing campaign.

What is so searching here is the realization that WE were also involved with a nut, which was plainly evident to plenty of people before the "letter writing" campaign was started.  Very humbling to say the least.

So, in less than a decade, the Davidians went from strange fringe group into dangerous cult...it all happened after a big public exposure and mass exodus from the group.  The remaining loyalists got increasingly strange and eventually let all their wives become Koresh's wives, and lived communally, with a serious persecution complex.

There are certain patterns that all these groups follow.  George and his servants are no different.

Brent

[vernecarty]

Here's on short article on David Koresh and the Branch Davidians:

http://www.watchman.org/cults/sda.htm

On another search, I came across this.

August 5, 1989
Howell teaches the "new light" doctrine of 1989 while staying in the Pomona, California home of Donald and Jeanine Bunds. The "new light" makes Howell the rightful husband of all the women in the group, including those who are married. Husbands and wives are separated and the wives become part of Howell's army.

Sexual impurity seems to be a very common denominator among men who start cults.
I suspect that this is the demonic aspect.
 It also happened wiith the Brethren movement strangely enough. I was quite stunned upon learning that George would actualy have married sisters rubbing his feet. Even more stunning is the fact that their husbands permitted it. Is it not amazing that some of these folk now continuing to follow Geroge and his teachings we were in "fellowship" with for so many years? Talk about wheat and tares...!
I am now a lot less confident than I used to be when it comes to making judgments about who is a believer.
I am prepared to extend courtesy to all of my fellow men provided they do not pose a threat to my well-being. Extending the hand of Christian fellowship to every Tom Dick and Harry that knows how to say "God Bless" is something about which I have become quite radical...this world is a dangerous place...
Verne

[editor]

While I am not advocating that the Assembly is every bit as bad as the Waco Davidians, I found this interesting, from Rick Ross.

It seems that not everything was bad in Waco, and that there were alot of precious memories.  Perhaps we have been too hard on them.

They say Koresh taught his followers - even the youngsters - how to commit suicide. "You didn't want to stick the gun to your temple because you might live. You wanted to stick it in your mouth and point up," Kiri Jewell, now 22 and a Michigan college student, told ABC's "PrimeTime" Thursday. "He never was very specific, but at some point we were gonna have to die for him. I didn't expect to live past 12."

Jewell left the compound in 1992, but her mother died in the standoff's fiery end. In a 1995 congressional hearing, a teenage Jewell recalled how Koresh began having sex with her when she was 10.

Many in the complex were too young to understand that Koresh had multiple "wives," including underage girls, with whom he fathered a dozen children. Neither did they know why they had to sit through all-night Bible studies.

But some say they have fond memories of riding go-carts, eating ice cream, swimming in the pool at the compound and listening to Koresh play the guitar. Heather Jones, 19, said she had a hard time adjusting to life outside the compound, where she was born. She doesn't blame the tragic finale on Koresh, whose legal wife was her aunt, but she has turned against religion.

One shouldn't emphasize the polygamy, suicide instructions and abuse, to the neglect of ice-cream and go-karts.  There was a lot of warm Christian fellowship Koresh's family.....

(That's sarcasm Al)

Brent

[Mark Kisla]

What is so searching here is the realization that WE were also involved with a nut, which was plainly evident to plenty of people before the "letter writing" campaign was started.  Very humbling to say the least.

I like this. It is humbling and  healthy to admit I was involved with a nut, very liberating. Brent it may sound silly, but I found your reference to George as "a nut" quite refreshing.....the guy is not a very goog example of what you want to be when you're in your 70s .

[BeckyW]

We were leaving a concert a few days ago when someone handed us a free newspaper in the parking lot.
Got home and looked at it and lo and behold this group was God's pure remnant, preparing to be His bride! 

They call themselves the Twelve Tribes or the Commonwealth of Israel.  They mourn the current state of the poor worldy church and they alone have resolved to be different.  Men like Chuck Smith and Billy Graham are labeled compromisers for promoting a "false unity" among the body of believers.  Most' believers' probably really aren't.  Because they don't live in the communes and communities like these guys do, they aren't serious for the Lord.  All written with a tone of humilty (false) and gratitude (pride) for what God has shown them, because they're special ( in a humble way).

Much of their message sounds the same as gg/assembly doctrine but on steroids.

So glad our assembly experience has provided us with a healthy vaccination against these folks and their 'spirituality', and all the other groups like them. Also interesting that they were proselytizing at a Christian event and that their paper was a winter 2003 issue.

Becky

[editor]

So glad our assembly experience has provided us with a healthy vaccination against these folks and their 'spirituality', and all the other groups like them. Also interesting that they were proselytizing at a Christian event and that their paper was a winter 2003 issue.

Becky

Hi Becky!  Good to hear from you.

What you mention above is very interesting.  According to Acts 15, and Galatians, these types, who have a message of "greater" light, seriousness and holiness for believers, always practice sheep stealing.  They rarely, if ever, bring the gospel to the lost.  Their focus is on "saving" people who are involved in Calvary Chapel, EV Free, and other compromised groups.  Of course, what that really means is that they are wanting people to be zealous towards them and their group.  The more sheep stolen, the more the leader can brag about how effectively God used him, blah blah blah.

They offer better, more sincere worship, more earnest prayer, holier living, deeper, more prophetic teaching, and a greater experience of God's presence.

They have much to offer other believers, but are in need of nothing themselves.

Here's something that I find rather shocking. Groups like the one you mention are bold, and they have a name and a leader(s).  They also have financial records that are in order, else they wouldn't proclaim themselves so openly.

Yes, they are creepy, arrogant nuts...but they are at least honest about who and what they are.

Contrast that with the garbage we used to say!  In SLO, we were specifically instructed to tell people who asked us what church we were from (while on outreach) to say,  "We're not from a church, and were not part of a group.  We are just out here for the Lord."

"Who is your leader or founder?"

"We don't have a leader, each assembly is autonomous and we have several leaders in each location.  We don't believe in a professional clergy."  [uh except for our supreme leader George, who controls everything and gets all the money and gives no account whatsoever.....  ]

Brent

[vernecarty]

So glad our assembly experience has provided us with a healthy vaccination against these folks and their 'spirituality', and all the other groups like them.Becky

Don't you just love this perspective?
It may very well be that God has further use for the weapons he tempered in the iron furnace of the assemblies.
May he have mercy on the ones that proved brittle...
Verne