Alcohol vs Marijuana

[David Mauldin]

   Personally, I think the world would be a better place had alcohol never been created. It has ruined more lives than there is paper to write about it. Everyone knows someone whose life has been adversely effected by it. Everyday in America hundreds of thousands of work hours are lost due to the fact that people are "hung over". Everyday there are numerous injuries/deaths of innocent people because of alcohol related traffic accidents. I can still remember one night after a prayer meeting two sisters were severely injured when a drunk plowed into them. Hospitals are continually servicing people who suffer from the long term effects that acohol has on the body. As I write this down I am beginning to realize the amount of money we are spending every year in just dealing with the consequences of alcohol. Think of the "alcoholism" institutions, the addiction that alcohol causes. Yet in most parts of the U.S. it's legal! Now on the otherhand you may drink and you feel that it may not have any adverse affect on you. I recently went to "Happy Hour" with some friends and as I ate my Ceasar salad the teacher across from me nocked down 6 shots of vodka.  He seemed to be enjoying himself and from what I am told he enjoys himself quite regularly. This surprised me because he his a very hard working good teacher who rarely calls into work sick. I will admit there are these people who "can handle it" out there but given the stated evidence I think it is too high a price to pay just for the benefit of some people. On the other hand Marijuana is a relatively mild drug!  If you have smoked marijuana you know what I am talking about. (I haven't smoked any since I became a Christian in 1979.) Pot is basicly a mood enhancer. It makes you feel pleasently relaxed. It is proven to NOT be addictive. Tobacco has been proven!  It doesn't make your head spin! I doubt anyone has ever failed a sobriety test because they smoked a joint. And yet it is illegal! Now I don't do drugs recreationaly but I will drink hard liquor if I have the flu (I get the flu once a week!) Just kidding. I think marijuana could have some positive uses as a drug!  Many times I have had a headache and thought that a joint would be a much better/quicker relief than asprin. So why is alcohol legal and marijuan illegal?  It doesn't make any sense!  Do you agree? Not agree?  Why??? Polite responses appreciated!

[sfortescue]

While the immediate effects seem milder, the long-term effects in the form of brain damage are significantly worse with marijuana.  It is not good for children to be exposed to such a deceptively effective obstacle to success in life.

[al Hartman]

Dave,

Ideally, such matters should be decided through conscience and common sense, rather than legislatively.  The government becomes involved by default because folks choose to indulge their desires rather than follow their better judgment.

Alcoholism is every bit the plague you describe.  There are, however, some benefits associated with light alcohol consumption, particularly relating to stress, digestion and disease prevention.  Apparently, many are unable to enjoy these benefits without the risk of addiction.

Addiction itself can be either physical, mental/emotional, or some combination thereof.  (Even Caesar salad can be addictive in some sense .)

One danger of marijuana is that it is, as you state, a mood enhancer, making it unsafe for those (such as myself) who are subject to dark moods that ought not be enhanced.  The other immediate major drawback is that its excessive use can and does impair judgment, response times, etc.  Then there are the long-term effects, as Steve points out...

Personally, I have no objection to either substance being used as prescribed by competent physicians, following thorough physical examinations and psych evaluations.  But either substance in the hands of the fundamentally self-centered & self-indulgent, and/or inexperienced, rebellious, hormonally-charged youth will always be a threat to the populace at large.

Politely ,
al

P.S.-- My personal experience with pot has been limited to secondhand smoke.  My experience of alcohol during my youth was extensive, making me extremely blessed and grateful to be alive and whole today.

[sfortescue]

Ideally, such matters should be decided through conscience and common sense, rather than legislatively.  The government becomes involved by default because folks choose to indulge their desires rather than follow their better judgment.

...

The purpose of government is to protect the poor and the weak from the rich and the strong.  Without such help, parents cannot protect their children from those who would take advantage of them.  There is some legal protection of children from alcohol, and if a child makes a mistake and drinks some, the effects will wear off.  Since the effects of marijuana are closer to being permanent, much stronger protection of children is needed than there is with alcohol.

[editor]

While the immediate effects seem milder, the long-term effects in the form of brain damage are significantly worse with marijuana.  It is not good for children to be exposed to such a deceptively effective obstacle to success in life.

Hi Steve,

Where did you get this information on Marijuana?  I have not heard of any damage like this associated with Marijuana use before.

I am, however, familiar with liver damage from alchohol, not to mention the brain damage that comes about after auto accidents.

Brent

[David Mauldin]

   Recently my wife and I had a short chat with a life-long pot smoker, George Carlin (book signing) Now if you compare his early material with his most recent you will conclude  that his brain must have been damaged prior to 1971!!!

[vernecarty]

Hi Steve,

Where did you get this information on Marijuana?  I have not heard of any damage like this associated with Marijuana use before.

I am, however, familiar with liver damage from alchohol, not to mention the brain damage that comes about after auto accidents.

Brent

I too was puzzled by his observation.
There is nothing more permanent than death.
If you know anything about alcohol related casualites in this country,the comparison is puzzling...
Verne

[editor]

I too was puzzled by his observation.
There is nothing more permanent than death.
If you know anything about alcohol related casualites in this country,the comparison is puzzling...
Verne

If I was forced to drive at 100MPH with a 19 year old who was:

High on pot

or

Drunk on alchohol

I would choose the kid who was high every time.  Marijuana simply doesn't impair the reflexes and judgement in any way that even comes close to the effects of alchohol intoxication.  Anyone who ever skiied in the late seventies knows this....

Steve, I would really like to know where you got that information about pot causing brain damage.  I have never heard it before.  In junior high school I heard that smoking pot made a person sterile....but I have 5 children, so does my wife....

Brent

[Mark Kisla]

If I was forced to drive at 100MPH with a 19 year old who was:

High on pot

or

Drunk on alchohol

I would choose the kid who was high every time.  Marijuana simply doesn't impair the reflexes and judgement in any way that even comes close to the effects of alchohol intoxication.  Anyone who ever skiied in the late seventies knows this....

Steve, I would really like to know where you got that information about pot causing brain damage.  I have never heard it before.  In junior high school I heard that smoking pot made a person sterile....but I have 5 children, so does my wife....

Brent

Like choosing a ride from Cheech and Chong rather than Otis of Mayberry

[al Hartman]

Googling "long-term effects of marijuana" results in about 489,000 sites to choose from.  Fearing that I might miss the next millenium, I didn't look them all up.

Here are a few short articles pertaining to pot & mental health:


     http://alcoholism.about.com/od/pot/a/blaan050209.htm

     http://alcoholism.about.com/od/pot/a/blacer040615.htm

     http://alcoholism.about.com/od/pot/a/blnida050110.htm

     http://alcoholism.about.com/cs/pot/a/blnida030508.htm

     http://alcoholism.about.com/cs/pot/a/blucsd030628.htm

[editor]

Googling "long-term effects of marijuana" results in about 489,000 sites to choose from.  Fearing that I might miss the next millenium, I didn't look them all up.

Here are a few short articles pertaining to pot & mental health:


     http://alcoholism.about.com/od/pot/a/blaan050209.htm

     http://alcoholism.about.com/od/pot/a/blacer040615.htm

     http://alcoholism.about.com/od/pot/a/blnida050110.htm

     http://alcoholism.about.com/cs/pot/a/blnida030508.htm

     http://alcoholism.about.com/cs/pot/a/blucsd030628.htm

Interesting.  I'm going to check this out.

The website that has all this info is an "antidrug" site. I am going to check out who funds them. 

As for the merits of the claims made in some of the articles, I just don't know.  The articles don't mention any kind of rigorous research, just anecdotal evidence that needs further study.  That doesn't mean it is or isn't true.

However, one of the sad facts about "research" in today's world is that it is often done for the sole purpose of obtaining federal money, or in order to create a market for a new drug.  I don't know if this applies to these articles or not.  It certainly does apply to many studies that are drug related.

Figures never lie, but liars always figure.

Here's a quote from the last article you mentioned.

In describing the negative effects in the study, the research team said the problems observed in learning and forgetting suggest that chronic long-term cannabis use results in selective memory defects. They added that "while the results are compatible with this conclusion, the effected size for both domains was of a very small magnitude."

Grant added that the minimal side effects seen "raised the question of practical significance. If we barely find this tiny effect in long-term heavy users of cannabis, then we are unlikely to see deleterious side effects in individuals who receive cannabis for a short time in a medical setting."

In addition, Grant said that heavy marijuana users often abuse other drugs, such as alcohol and amphetamines, which also might have long-term neurological effects. This raises the question of the extent to which the other drugs contributed to the minimal problems found in learning and forgetting in the marijuana users.

The paper's authors also noted that many of the research studies examined had significant limitations, either with small numbers of subjects or insufficient information about potential confounding factors, such as exposure to other drugs or presence of neuropsychiatric factors such as depression or personality disorders.

They noted that only studies that begin with the examination of children and young adolescents before they enter the period of risk to cannabis exposure, can sufficiently reduce the influence of these additional factors.

In addition to Grant, the paper's authors included doctoral students Raul Gonzalez, M.S., and Catherine L. Carey, M.S. and Loki Natarajan, Ph.D., UCSD HIV Neurobehavioral Research Center (HNRC) and UCSD Department of Family and Preventive Medicine, and Tanya Wolfson, M.A., UCSD HNRC.

Intersting info, thanks for posting it.

Brent

[sfortescue]

Some New Scientist articles about marijuana:

Cannabis: Too much, too young?
Marijuana use in pregnancy damages kids' learning
Psychotic symptoms more likely with cannabis
Marijuana's link to hard drug use not genetic
Marijuana makes blood rush to the head

An Australian government publication:
The health and psychological consequences of cannabis use

The real danger of cannabis by Susan Greenfield

[lenore]

If I was forced to drive at 100MPH with a 19 year old who was:

High on pot

or

Drunk on alchohol

I would choose the kid who was high every time.  Marijuana simply doesn't impair the reflexes and judgement in any way that even comes close to the effects of alchohol intoxication.  Anyone who ever skiied in the late seventies knows this....

Steve, I would really like to know where you got that information about pot causing brain damage.  I have never heard it before.  In junior high school I heard that smoking pot made a person sterile....but I have 5 children, so does my wife....

Brent

Brent:
Maybe this commerical was only in Canada, have you never seen the commerical on television and in the magazines.

It showed a frying pan, an egg, then the egg in a hot frying pan.

The commerical when The egg is your brain.
When the egg is broken into the hot frying pan, "it said this is your brain on drugs".
Including pot.
It show the egg being fried.

There is also evidence that when smoking pot, they leave holes in the brain.
When smoking pot during pregnancies, { including alochol}it can produce children with severe learning disabilities, severe ADDHD, because cat scan, and mri are seeing areas of the brain that never developed right. The medical evidence are in Medical Journals.  Also a form of the type fetal alcohol sydrome that is associate with pot and other drug uses.

Pot does impair judgement, and their are reports from the law enforcements agencies how many accidents, and fatalies associated when the driver has been under the influence of pot.

Who knows maybe I watch too much television and read the new papers and magazines, I do like reading anything medical, and watching alot of medical shows and cop drama shows. Even though these television show are fictional, alot of their facts are based on truth, as they do have consultants on the show to make the dramas authentic in their facts.

So If you allow me to put my two cents into this conversation. This what I have read and hear associated with the damage the drug use [including pot and alochol] can do to the body and under the influence do to someone else.

Lenore
ps: alochol is a drug too..sorry if I didnt spell alochol properly

[editor]

While I am quite familiar with all the anti-marijuana propoganda put out by the government, and those who are paid by the government to "research" the effects of marijuana, I was unfamiliar with what Steven had mentioned regarding brain damage, and long term damage at that.

I thinik smoking pot is stupid, not to mention sinful if done for the sole purpose of getting high.  Same thing with alchohol.  However, is it really that dangerous?  I guess it depends on who you talk to.

All the way back to Reefer Madness, there has been propoganda put out to warn the public about the dangers of marijuana.  People who didn't know any better, but who were emotionally opposed to pot believed the propoganda, even though it was totally fallacious.  The simple fact is that there is money to be made in the war on drugs, both by selling them and being a part of the arm of government that is waging the war.

I was quite surprised recently to learn that a neighbor of mine, who is a very successfull business man, smokes pot every day, and has been for decades.  He seems totally normal in every way, and in fact he is.  Do you suppose he has brain damage?

On the other hand, it seems to me that alchohol is far worse in every way, yet it is legal.  Why?

When it  comes right down to it, I'm not going to smoke it, whether it is legal or not.  Others are going to smoke it regardless.

Should I report my neighbor to the police?

Brent

[lenore]

While I am quite familiar with all the anti-marijuana propoganda put out by the government, and those who are paid by the government to "research" the effects of marijuana, I was unfamiliar with what Steven had mentioned regarding brain damage, and long term damage at that.

I thinik smoking pot is stupid, not to mention sinful if done for the sole purpose of getting high.  Same thing with alchohol.  However, is it really that dangerous?  I guess it depends on who you talk to.

All the way back to Reefer Madness, there has been propoganda put out to warn the public about the dangers of marijuana.  People who didn't know any better, but who were emotionally opposed to pot believed the propoganda, even though it was totally fallacious.  The simple fact is that there is money to be made in the war on drugs, both by selling them and being a part of the arm of government that is waging the war.

I was quite surprised recently to learn that a neighbor of mine, who is a very successfull business man, smokes pot every day, and has been for decades.  He seems totally normal in every way, and in fact he is.  Do you suppose he has brain damage?

On the other hand, it seems to me that alchohol is far worse in every way, yet it is legal.  Why?

When it  comes right down to it, I'm not going to smoke it, whether it is legal or not.  Others are going to smoke it regardless.

Should I report my neighbor to the police?

Brent

I agree with you about alochol being worse, and legal of it.
My father is a recovering alocholic. [[is there a spell checker on this board?]]
He started drinking at around 15. When I was growing up he would only drink on weekends and holidays. If you asked one of his co workers if my father drank, they would not be able to confirm it.
My parents would tell stories, about my parents would go with a car load up to Renfrew to what ever drinking and dancing establisment .usually the Legion, for some sort of outting. The driver would always be my Dad. For some odd reasons when my Dad was in his 20's he would always be able to get the car home safely, and the other passenger, even though my Dad probably had as much booze in him as the others. My Dad is a 6"3" tall, and some weight, and he always ate a bowl of mashed potatoes before he even went out drinking. So maybe the absorbing the alochol was slower. The next day, my mother having put a can of tomator juice in the fridge, would stay in bed and nurse a hangover, drinking his tomato juice.

There were times I wish I could stop the painful memories of damage having a alocholic father.
My dad was force to retire at 55 years due to painful arthritis. He became daily drinking. He quit drinking 11 years ago Christmas, He found out he was saving $500 a week from not drinking.
My Dad is now 75 years old.
My Mother is praying for his salvation. But I bet there were time she prayed that he wouldnt wrap the car and himself around a tree. Worse yet take some one else with him.
The last couple of years of his drinking he would only drink at home, making life miserable for my Mother, with all kind of false accusations.

My Brothers daughter is the only grandchild that benefit from having a sober grandfather.
My parents if all goes well, will be celebrating there 50th anniversay this coming October 21st.

Yes alochol is more damaging at this time, because to personal experience.

I have another question here. With so many communities becoming smoke free because of the effects of second hand smoke. Smoking pot must have the same lung damage to the smoker and to second hand smokers.{??}
There are producers of pot now are making or putting in other stuff to make the pot more potent and addictive.  So maybe the evident of damage of pot will be causing warning bells to ring louder.