WELFARE MYTHS

[editor]

Brent,

I am really, really sorry for not thanking you about the money.  I honestly thought I had.  That's no excuse, though.

Currently, I receive disability benefits.  My case is reviewed on a yearly basis.  There have been no attempts on my part to try to fraud the system.  My doctor and my medical history speak for themselves.

Every day that I do not wake up feeling like hurting myself is such a blessing.  Although I am not as bad as I was a year ago, I am what is called a "rapid cycler"-generally a couple weeks of "good days", then about a month of "bad days"-severe depression, sometimes resulting in suicidal ideation. It is during those bad days that I tend to be overly sensitive and fly off the handle-like I did today.  Wel...I've been doing it for the past 2 weeks, as my post on this BB can attest.

I am almost done with my education.  I should be done in December.

that's great to hear Eulaha.  Getting your degree is a huge accomplishment, and you can be very proud of that.

I don't for a second think that someone who is hospitilized should work.  I remember you working here in SLO, etc.

I never was referring to you or Lenore, but to the welfare system in general.  The fact that you are getting your degree is more than enough demonstration that you intend to move on and up in life.  That type of attitude won't allow you to stay on welfare your whole life.

Suzie sells jewelry as a little business.  One of her friends started doing this a few years ago, when she was a welfare queen.  Now, she owns a house and is making plenty of money....selling jewelry.

Work is good for people.

Brent

[editor]

I can't help but think of the Rich young Ruler and Jesus...Yet one thing you lack ? hum what could that be? Jesus said when you Give don't let your right hand know what your left hand is doing! Lazerous the Beggar was carried away by angels into heaven and comforted. God did'nt ask us to question the poor. He said Give and it shall be Given unto you good measure pressed down and running over.   Summer.

What do you mean by this Summer?

[summer007]

Sometimes the Lord puts his finger on the one thing we lack. We may think were lookin pretty good. More often then not its a lack of Love. (but we sure can keep all the rules!) Summer.

[vernecarty]

Sometimes the Lord puts his finger on the one thing we lack. We may think were lookin pretty good. More often then not its a lack of Love. (but we sure can keep all the rules!) Summer.

It is often difficult to know when to speak, and when to forbear. In my case I am sure it is better to err on the side of caution but I am not convinced that what Breant said was necessarily indicative of a lack of love.
I know I would get really frustrated on coming onto the BB and finding that all ten of the recent posts were Lenore's but I bit my tongue. In my case, I thought not speaking would be in her best interests, in Brent's case, he obviously thought speaking up would.
Verne

[sfortescue]

There's an old saying that any offer that seems too good to be true probably is, so Lenore's skepticism of Brent's good will is understandable.  Someone once made too good an offer to me, and I made the mistake of accepting it.  It wasn't long before the terms were changed.  The offer may have been arranged by the secret organization which had arranged the death of my father and his wife.  These people are often unusually friendly, but their goal is to hurt.  Once, someone seemed unusually interested in the status of my brother's efforts to sell my father's house.  He would regularly ask me about it and say that I should ask my brother about it.  I never did, since it was of no interest to me.  My father was in a care home at the time.  Then my father died.  It happened on the same day a year after a post that I made about the secret organization.  Now I don't know whether I can trust this person anymore.  The organization seems to have arranged multiple coincidences to happen on the same day to confuse things, in case there was an investigation.

Another near coincidence is that Joe's brother died on the same day that Lenore's daughter might have died.  This seems suspicious to me.

[editor]

Sometimes the Lord puts his finger on the one thing we lack. We may think were lookin pretty good. More often then not its a lack of Love. (but we sure can keep all the rules!) Summer.

If you're accusing me of lacking love.....you're most definitely correct. 

However, for many months I said nothing at all.  Even here, I didn't address her, as I explained below.

The offer of the house and job was sincere, and was done out of love.  Certainly no personal gain would come from it.    But do I lack love?  Yes, and I also lack compassion, mercy, kindness, intelligence and plenty of other attributes.

I guess saying nothing, or telling her she was a blessing would have been more loving? 

Brent

[Margaret]

Maybe there are a couple of distinctions that would be helpful in this discussion. One is, the nature of the BB makes it appear as if such an offer is simple, and the acceptance or refusal is simple. In Leonore's case, it would definitely not be simple. It would entail leaving her country, leaving the town of her birth and entire life, and, most difficult, changing the way Canada has taught her to think about social welfare. There are many able-bodied folks in Canada, I was told by my Canadian son-in-law, who every year work for 6 months and then go on welfare for 6 months. It's that easy and it's that socially accepted in Canada. To present Leonore with a totally different way of thinking and expect her to digest it on one fast-moving BB thread is not realistic.

Secondly, there is a difference between the love extended in Brent's sincere offer, and his manner of making it. I think it is the manner in which he offered it that falls short. He said, after Leonore refused it, "However, as much as I wanted to help Lenore in doing this, I was 99.9% sure she wouldn't do it.  Like most welfare types, she is dependent and powerless..."  This being the case, love would have dictated making the offer in private, to give Leonore time to work through all the complications of such a decision without public shaming. But Brent's admission and his following posts reveal a mixed motive of wanting to make a point about welfare, and using Leonore to make it, while at the same time truly offering to help her. As Stephen pointed out, "Leonore's skepticism of Brent's good will is understandable," and her feeling of being attacked.

[LENORE]

May 1st:

I want to thank you all for speaking up on my behalf. It brought tears of love and acceptance from all of you.
Stephen, to Margaret, to Summer, Marcia, Al, and the others if I forget to mention you by name.
I left here with anger, and very upset.
I let the situation and the person behind that situation control me and withdraw.

That is part of my mental illness, to take things quite personally.
I was really sorry to speak out in totally honest the way I did.

I thank you for your encouraging words.

Love you in Christ.
May God bless you for your heart.

Lenore

[al Hartman]

Al, for example, also struggles with Clinical Depression and has certainly cultivated a mutual friendship.  Their bond is their mutual struggle with their illness. 

Sondra, the positive personal mention is appreciated.  The truth is that Lenore's and my bond is Jesus Christ.  Because of our experiences with depression, we have compassion toward one another, but our communications are usually about the Lord and spiritual matters or just life in general.  We seldom discuss depression except when one of us requests prayer during a rough time or one senses that the other is "down."
Brent, to get back to your original point for a moment:  You said that you treat people who are on welfare (if I understood you correctly).  Whether you treat them for free, accept their welfare insurance (or whatever CA calls it), or receive their money, aren't you thus supporting the welfare system?

Your suggestion of starving them into working is something you aren't in a position to do, but what about withholding treatment?  Or at least making them go to someone else, so as to not personally endorse their lifestyle?

Just curious...
al

[Mark C.]

Hi Everyone!  

  Brent:  I am curious why you think that my agreement with Sondra is "refreshing"?  I find myself agreeing with her most recent post again due to the practical discernment she offers in it.

  I must ditto Margaret's post as being the clearest expression of how I feel Brent's responses were not really helpful for Lenore.

  Steve:  Please find someone to talk to about this conspiracy that you have discussed that is against your family.  Do you have a pastor that you can confide in?  I think that you need someone to help you deal with this.  If I can be of any help please let me know via email.

                                                             God bless,  Mark C.

[summer007]

Brent, The comment was'nt just for you. I point the finger back at myself. I'm sure you've helped more people then I can ever dream of helping. And you and your wife have suffered in ways I can't imagine and I appreciate your candidness.I know you have a good heart, and can see things that would be good for others. For instance I helped someone the other day who was depressed just took them on their errands, got them out of the house, out of their torment for a little while. This person was so grateful and kept saying I could'nt of done this with-out you, and thanked me for understanding. I had to put a few of my own urgent matters on hold, but really enjoyed helping them.( this person has several businesses and several residences, yet is severellly depressed) I'm sure deep-down you were trying to help, you've just been disappointed with past results, and human nature being what it is. I had to stop myself from looking down on people. God has had to humble me many a time. Summer.

[summer007]

P.S. I wanted to add some people with self-esteem issues can't even imagine a better life for themselves, it has'nt dawned on them that they could do better. Who knows maybe down the road Lenore will fully recover and find an amazing job, and just maybe you planted the seeds to her dreams...of course I'm speculating.

[editor]

Wow, what a day!

I got up at 5AM and drove into the Sierra Nevada to catch the last day of the ski season with the family.  We had a blast, but I have a sore stomach from the first hard fall I've had in years.

I'll still get up and go to work however.  People are counting on me, and work is my main source of income.

Well, it seems as if I've been a bit of a meanie, like when I was called Hitler by a sensitive member of the BB.

Let's start over, shall we?

Lenore, can you please tell me why you are unable to work?

If you are not capable of trading time or talent for money, then you need assistance.  What exactly are the reasons you cannot get a job?


Let me answer a few other questions that came up below, while I was away today.  First, I'd like answer Al Hartman.

Al, I have treated a number of people on welfare over the years.  Half of them paid with cash.  Another 20%, an aged parent would acompany them to the office and handle the finances for them.

Fully 30% of them turned out to be total deadbeats.  They would "forget" their wallet or purse on the first visit, make a partial payment on the second visit, and then disappear.  Checks bounce all the time from these people, and often the address or phone turn out to be fake.  Most of my accounts receivable now, is from the welfare class.

My malpractice carrier has a whole workshop on how to deal with this strata of society, because they are by far the most likely to sue a doctor.  In SLO, most of the babies born are from single, welfare mothers on Medi-cal.  This accounts for a little more than half of births here.  (Families can't afford to purchase a home in SLO. The median price is over 400k.  But welfare folks get it all.)  The OB GYN's are getting hit hard with lawsuits when the babies don't come out right....anyhow, I digress.

Here's why I don't withhold treatment, Al.  I think it's good for them to pay for something they value.  Even if it's just cigarettes.  If they value it, they must pay.  I KNOW the liquor store won't let them smoke on credit.....so I ask them for cash.  Unless I decide to treat them for free, which is often.  That's my choice, and I make it of my own free will.  Quite different than being forced to do it, which I won't do.  So, treating welfare people doesn't violate my principles at all.  I'm not sure exactly what you were trying to get at, but the direct question part I answered. 

OK, many of you are taking me to task for not doing this privately, or for being more friendly, loving, sensitive to her fragility, etc.

I don't know how many times I have to say this.

I didn't address her.  I wasn't talking to her.  I was pontificating on a thread that I didn't start, after following a link to a website put their by someone else.  She made herself the center of the discussion by saying, "Then you recent me, Brent."

Go back and read it.  I followed up by asking her why she was on welfare, and why she couldn't work.  But she deleted her answers.

This really makes me sick.  I think some of you have a serious screw loose.  You act as if Lenore is retarded, or substandard as a person, and it disgusts me.  Does she get a pass for totally misreading me and calling me Hitler?  Yes!  Why? Because she is stupid?  I have no idea, and I don't think she's stupid, but apparently several of you must.

We all have to work at different occupations.  We talk about how people need to be held accountable for the things they do.  However, I guess Lenore needn't worry.  She is so weak and sensitive.  She should be able to do whatever she wants, go bowling, drink coffee, take gourmet cooking classes, do yoga, build self-esteem and complain about how hard it is to be on welfare.

It's OK for her to act this way, because she's substandard.  She hasn't the skills necessary to build a hamburger, or stuff envelopes.  She's just substandard.

What a bunch of post masticated bovine ruminant!  What cruel, sick, nasty people you are!      What have you done for her, other than to re-inforce the horrible conclusions she has drawn about herself?  I bet none of you have given her a dime, or done one thing to help her out, except perhaps Marcia.

I'll adopt your sick, cruel, and debasing ideas for a moment:

Lenore, you should just take it easy and recover.  Sleep if you need to, go to classes, do whatever makes you feel better.  If something bothers you, learn to shut it out and just be at peace.  If you NEVER get to a point where you can work, or do anything, don't worry.  God has a pupose for you, but you're so small and weak, so He only has a tiny little purpose.  You won't ever do anything great in life.  Just get through one day at a time.  Don't take any risks, whatever you do.  A person like yourself is just not smart enough, tough enough, or determined enough to embark on any great adventure in life.

Live on a single level house...(no stairs to fall down that way)  take medicine so you are happy at all times, and do whatever seems nice.  Don't plan too far out in the future, because you know that there are always reasons why you can't do things better people do.  You aren't good enough, so don't try.  God Bless You!

Lenore, I don't believe any of that about you.  I don't think you're stupid, or less capable than anyone else.  You need to give yourself a try and don't listen to these freaks.  Their advice, if followed, would have you in diapers before long.  You are a child of God, and you are made whole in Him.  Start acting like it!

The rest of you should be ashamed of yourselves!  Al, I expect this crap from you.  Mark, you dissappoint me tremendously.

Sondra....not sure yet.

Bob Smith, of all people, over on SWTE is the one who gets it.  The rest of you need to apologize to Lenore for helping her believe she's a failure.  You sick, twisted, hypocrits!  The tender mercies of the wicked are cruel, and in this matter you people are wicked!

Brent

[editor]

Have any of you watched Lord of The Rings,  The Two Towers?  Has anyone read the books?

Saruman=Welfare.  An evil that wants to enslave and control people.
Grima=welfare counselor, medicator, "support" system, etc.

Theoden=welfare recipient who has totally bought the lie that they can't make on their own.  They just aren't good enough.  Some people are losers, and that's who they are; a stupid, substandard loser, that will always be victimized because they aren't able to protect themselves, or do one thing right.

We need a Gandalf.

Of course, Jesus isn't as strong as Gandalf.....The Holy Spirit hasn't got that kind of power, to heal someone like that.  It's never been done before.

Jesus told the guy,  "stay in bed and we'll bring food to you."  After He talked with Peter's mother-in-law, He told her,  "I just want you to know that you're gonna be sick for a long time, maybe forever.  We'll just serve you."

Let's face it, even with God, there's no hope.  He isn't strong enough, and He doesn't mean what He says.

Oh yeah, I also don't know what I'm talking about.  The fact that Suzie and I have faced this and seen God's deliverance doesn't count.  We are strong, smart, intelligent, successfull, good looking, and lucky.  Lenore is just much less of a person, with less worth and less ability.  She's substandard.

Do I have this right?

Brent 

[Eulaha L. Long]

Wow, what a day!

I got up at 5AM and drove into the Sierra Nevada to catch the last day of the ski season with the family.  We had a blast, but I have a sore stomach from the first hard fall I've had in years.

I'll still get up and go to work however.  People are counting on me, and work is my main source of income.

Well, it seems as if I've been a bit of a meanie, like when I was called Hitler by a sensitive member of the BB.

Let's start over, shall we?

Lenore, can you please tell me why you are unable to work?

If you are not capable of trading time or talent for money, then you need assistance.  What exactly are the reasons you cannot get a job?


Let me answer a few other questions that came up below, while I was away today.  First, I'd like answer Al Hartman.

Al, I have treated a number of people on welfare over the years.  Half of them paid with cash.  Another 20%, an aged parent would acompany them to the office and handle the finances for them.

Fully 30% of them turned out to be total deadbeats.  They would "forget" their wallet or purse on the first visit, make a partial payment on the second visit, and then disappear.  Checks bounce all the time from these people, and often the address or phone turn out to be fake.  Most of my accounts receivable now, is from the welfare class.

My malpractice carrier has a whole workshop on how to deal with this strata of society, because they are by far the most likely to sue a doctor.  In SLO, most of the babies born are from single, welfare mothers on Medi-cal.  This accounts for a little more than half of births here.  (Families can't afford to purchase a home in SLO. The median price is over 400k.  But welfare folks get it all.)  The OB GYN's are getting hit hard with lawsuits when the babies don't come out right....anyhow, I digress.

Here's why I don't withhold treatment, Al.  I think it's good for them to pay for something they value.  Even if it's just cigarettes.  If they value it, they must pay.  I KNOW the liquor store won't let them smoke on credit.....so I ask them for cash.  Unless I decide to treat them for free, which is often.  That's my choice, and I make it of my own free will.  Quite different than being forced to do it, which I won't do.  So, treating welfare people doesn't violate my principles at all.  I'm not sure exactly what you were trying to get at, but the direct question part I answered. 

OK, many of you are taking me to task for not doing this privately, or for being more friendly, loving, sensitive to her fragility, etc.

I don't know how many times I have to say this.

I didn't address her.  I wasn't talking to her.  I was pontificating on a thread that I didn't start, after following a link to a website put their by someone else.  She made herself the center of the discussion by saying, "Then you recent me, Brent."

Go back and read it.  I followed up by asking her why she was on welfare, and why she couldn't work.  But she deleted her answers.

This really makes me sick.  I think some of you have a serious screw loose.  You act as if Lenore is retarded, or substandard as a person, and it disgusts me.  Does she get a pass for totally misreading me and calling me Hitler?  Yes!  Why? Because she is stupid?  I have no idea, and I don't think she's stupid, but apparently several of you must.

We all have to work at different occupations.  We talk about how people need to be held accountable for the things they do.  However, I guess Lenore needn't worry.  She is so weak and sensitive.  She should be able to do whatever she wants, go bowling, drink coffee, take gourmet cooking classes, do yoga, build self-esteem and complain about how hard it is to be on welfare.

It's OK for her to act this way, because she's substandard.  She hasn't the skills necessary to build a hamburger, or stuff envelopes.  She's just substandard.

What a bunch of post masticated bovine ruminant!  What cruel, sick, nasty people you are!      What have you done for her, other than to re-inforce the horrible conclusions she has drawn about herself?  I bet none of you have given her a dime, or done one thing to help her out, except perhaps Marcia.

I'll adopt your sick, cruel, and debasing ideas for a moment:

Lenore, you should just take it easy and recover.  Sleep if you need to, go to classes, do whatever makes you feel better.  If something bothers you, learn to shut it out and just be at peace.  If you NEVER get to a point where you can work, or do anything, don't worry.  God has a pupose for you, but you're so small and weak, so He only has a tiny little purpose.  You won't ever do anything great in life.  Just get through one day at a time.  Don't take any risks, whatever you do.  A person like yourself is just not smart enough, tough enough, or determined enough to embark on any great adventure in life.

Live on a single level house...(no stairs to fall down that way)  take medicine so you are happy at all times, and do whatever seems nice.  Don't plan too far out in the future, because you know that there are always reasons why you can't do things better people do.  You aren't good enough, so don't try.  God Bless You!

Lenore, I don't believe any of that about you.  I don't think you're stupid, or less capable than anyone else.  You need to give yourself a try and don't listen to these freaks.  Their advice, if followed, would have you in diapers before long.  You are a child of God, and you are made whole in Him.  Start acting like it!

The rest of you should be ashamed of yourselves!  Al, I expect this crap from you.  Mark, you dissappoint me tremendously.

Sondra....not sure yet.

Bob Smith, of all people, over on SWTE is the one who gets it.  The rest of you need to apologize to Lenore for helping her believe she's a failure.  You sick, twisted, hypocrits!  The tender mercies of the wicked are cruel, and in this matter you people are wicked!

Brent

Brent,

This is all my fault.  I should have never started this thread in the first place!  I didn't mean for everyone to be mad at each other. 

There's nothing wrong with being challenged...it hurts at first, but ultimately it helps us to be better people.  And...it takes a lot of caring for someone to challenge us the way you (and Suzie) do!  So, thanks for caring!