WELFARE MYTHS

[editor]

Brent,

Thanks.  It was an honest question.  I thought that my saying "just curious" would make that plain.  I prefer not to engage in cat-&-mouse trickery.  Plain conversation is difficult enough on the BB without playing games.  I'd appreciate your pointing out what part of my post is not part of the direct question...  the part where you wonder exactly what I was "trying to get at"?

I asked.  You answered.  Shouldn't that suffice without our needing to imply hidden motives?

Again, I would be obliged if you would point out any instance on this thread where I have given you what you deem "crap," Brent.  I can't help however it is that you feel or think about me, but I have gone to extremes to not be unnecessarily confrontational with you.  Although I disagree with much of what you say, and am both hurt and concerned by the way you appear to treat others, you are responsible to Christ for all that and I have no reason or desire to want you to answer to me for anything.  As for the subject of the welfare system, I had not considered it evil (it hadn't occurred to me), but otherwise I pretty much share your opinion of how it is operated and what it has become.
For those who have begun to forget what it was like to be led by Geftakys, these are some examples of what I recall of his "leadership":

He was NEVER wrong.***  I have witnessed him diametrically change his position on a matter without ever having been wrong.

Anyone who disagreed with him was WRONG.  No exceptions.  There was no room for other opinions.  Period.  It was his way or the whizway.

He would not conduct a private conversation with a peer.  He was peerless.  No one was worthy to approach him on a level field.  He would only talk down to anyone else, never just as a brother in Christ.

He publicly humiliated those he disagreed with, those he feared, and any he otherwise disapproved of or disliked.  He mocked them, laughed at them, ridiculed them, called them names, and twisted their words.

He exaggerated his own position and his criticisms of others, always to the advantage of his public image and to the detriment of those he opposed.

He bragged of his wisdom and strength of character & will.  He derided those he considered weak, and especially those he wanted to make appear to be weak.

He had his "groupies" who, each for his own reasons, would support and follow him anywhere, through anything, believing (or at least professing) that he could do no wrong.  Verne summed it up well: they were hoping to become "something."  And they did: they became misled, confused, disillusioned, ruined...

In all of these things, George was NEVER wrong.***

***For clarity's sake:  George would readily admit that he had made mistakes in his lifetime, but they were always in the past, never in the present.  No one could catch him making one.


For any who wonder what I may be "trying to get at," the above "attributes of George" pretty much parallel my opinion of Brent's conduct on this bulletin board.  I do not like saying such things about a brother in Christ.  I state them without rancor or any personal motive only because I believe Brent's conduct is unbefitting one who is looked to as a shepherd.  I may be wrong, and I am prepared to hear and take to heart any and all replies.

Verne said:
I have personally profited by the criticisms I have received on the BB, the references to my tendencies toward carrying on the LB traditions and mannerisms, etc.  I hope, and refuse to doubt, Brent, that you can and will do the same...

In Christ,
al

OK,

I guess I mis-read you.  You weren't really saying I was like George, only that George's attributes parallell my conduct on the BB.  There's a difference there, a subtle difference that was lost on me when I read your post the first few times.

You clarified it with this:

I have not meant to call you George or Adolph, nor have I accused you of evil.  I simply suggest that, for reasons I cannot explain, you behave in manners that resemble his: demeaning, oppressing and attempting to control others (your denials not withstanding). 

OK, let's say, for the sake of discussion that I demean people, oppress them and attempt to control them.

I am demeaning towards you, for instance.  I admit it.  Oppressive?  I guess if someone were to put way too much of their life into the BB I could be oppressive, but isn't that their problem?

Controlling? Nope.  I can't see it.  If that were the case you wouldn't be able to say any of this.

Again, if I am exhibiting attributes of George with my conduct on the BB, and one of those attributes is that I have groupies, who are they?  You should name them.  I take it you aren't one of them?

[vapid spiritual sounding language here........................................]

Brent

[vernecarty]

Hey Brent:
You may not be a moderator but you still get your own special name in color when online now doncha?
Now there's an exclusive clube indeed...how'd they do that??!!   
Verne

p.s can I have lemon yellow? (red is already taken)

[CAGirl]

Just thought I’d add this here. I was in a hospital for mental illness for a straight month. I was there for treatment of bi-polar but sat in many meetings with women suffering from chronic depression. I observed two things.

One- the women that focused on their disabilities and depression seemed to be stuck. They were so busy discussing how depressed they were or how hard it was that they couldn’t imagine any other sort of life. This had become their identity. When anyone tried to offer a solution to them that may work they got themselves into a panic at the thought and became very defensive of there depression. I heard lots or “I can’t” “it’s to hard” “you don’t understand” “You don’t know” And these were all ways they put you and the idea at arms length.

Two- This one started to happen to me. Going to meetings and groups with a daily focus on the depression and symptoms you were experiencing began to get me into a rut. I walked out of there and found it hard to walk on my own two legs. I found that there is such a thing as to much support. I need time away from the group to try things out. Give myself a chance to fail. I don’t know about anyone else but I learn best from my mistakes.

[moonflower2]

Just thought I’d add this here. I was in a hospital for mental illness for a straight month. I was there for treatment of bi-polar but sat in many meetings with women suffering from chronic depression. I observed two things.

One- the women that focused on their disabilities and depression seemed to be stuck. They were so busy discussing how depressed they were or how hard it was that they couldn’t imagine any other sort of life. This had become their identity. When anyone tried to offer a solution to them that may work they got themselves into a panic at the thought and became very defensive of there depression. I heard lots or “I can’t” “it’s to hard” “you don’t understand” “You don’t know” And these were all ways they put you and the idea at arms length.

Two- This one started to happen to me. Going to meetings and groups with a daily focus on the depression and symptoms you were experiencing began to get me into a rut. I walked out of there and found it hard to walk on my own two legs. I found that there is such a thing as to much support. I need time away from the group to try things out. Give myself a chance to fail. I don’t know about anyone else but I learn best from my mistakes.

Beautiful, CAgirl! You've said it all.

Nursing depression in long-term support groups does not cure it. Even with severe depression, you have to get going again even when it doesn't seem that you are getting anywhere. Go through the motions, structure your life to have some control over it, but you can't just sit. There are many people with chronic depression who work. There are many people with chronic diseases who work. People with Parkinson's Disease work. Blind people work. Deaf people work (full-time vet). A woman with one arm works as a chashier. A woman with sarcoidosis worked with oxygen until the day she died.  I could go on and on. A bi-polar woman, with a B.A. degree,  works as a very respected teacher aide at the high school level. She is not listless, as was a suggested result of medicating a bi-polar patient. in someone else's post!

Anyone else, don't tell me that I don't know, because I've been there with situational and chemically imbalanced depression. The one who helped me the most, and who I thought was cruel at the time, was a friend who wasn't afraid to tell the truth. The other one was a doctor(GP) who had been through a major breakdown and suffered through depressive episodes for the rest of his life and learned how to live in spite of them. Those closest to me mocked me, stigmatized me, and held me up to be a unfaithful example of a Christian.   

Someone wants to talk "post traumatic stress syndrome"? A lot of us have stories to tell, and the afteraffects of them.  I think that stress causes our bodies to age more quickly. I have ailments, too, but I'm going until it doesn't work anymore. Am I bragging? NO. But I am determined.

Support groups can help you accept yourself and your problems, especially when no one else can, and when you believe in your mind that God also has left you, but support groups as a way of life just keeps the pus oozing.

[sfortescue]

My opinion is that mental illness is overdiagnosed to cover up the fact that other medical problems are underdiagnosed for the purpose of concealing the epidemic of illnesses caused by food additives.  I believe that the obesity epidemic is due to an epidemic of Cushing's Syndrome, which is a hormonal imbalance caused by either cancer or problems with the pituitary gland or adrenal glands.  There also seems to be an epidemic of pituitary tumors.  Another epidemic is of digestive and colon problems.  These can all be traced to eating food that has obnoxious substances in it.  The poor will naturally tend to eat more food of bad quality, and therefore suffer more of these illnesses.

I've read a number of books on biochemistry and a book about the molecular biology of the neuron.  One interesting thing that I learned about neurons is that no two of them are alike.  They are designed for maximizing their diversity so that they can distinguish the maximum number of kinds of sensations.  This all requires a precision calibration mechanism to optimize their function.  It is clear from this that psychoactive drugs throw a monkeywrench into the system by upsetting the calibration.  Each time a pill is taken is like being punched by a boxer because of the sudden change of the chemical balance.  It is obvious that this can't be good for the brain.  The brain has to try to recalibrate in order to cope with the new chemical balance, like trying to set up the pieces on a chessboard that has been bumped, knocking them over.  Some pieces end up in the wrong positions.  Psychoactive drugs should only be prescribed in extreme circumstances.

One book that I read was about copper metabolism.  A large percentage of the copper in the body is in the brain.  A major way that it is used is in the enzyme that synthesizes serotonin, so a copper deficiency will produce symptoms of depression.  Unfortunately, taking a supplement to make up such a deficiency may be hazardous, because the deficiency may actually be caused by cancer.  Cancer cells love certain minerals, such as copper and calcium.  There is also a hazard of toxicity from taking too much copper.  The balance is quite delicate.  Another cause of deficiency could be poor absorption of certain nutrients from damage to the digestive tract caused by obnoxious ingredients in food.  Another thing that the brain needs is essential fatty acids.  Neurons are so numerous that they need these special fatty acids for their membranes, so that the membranes are thin enough to fit in the cramped space.  Nuts (but not peanuts) contain essential fatty acids and reasonably small amounts of copper, so they are good for the brain.  Taking mineral supplements is not recommended for anyone that might have cancer.  Shellfish contain very large amounts of copper and other minerals, and are not good for someone who might have cancer.  Shellfish blood is blue, being copper-based rather than iron-based.  I speculate that maybe the expression "happy as a clam" comes from the copper in the clams that tends to improve mood.  To repeat, copper balance is delicate, so don't eat too much shellfish.  For those who are Japanese, squid and octopus also have copper-based blue blood, and several varieties of seaweed also have very high mineral content.  (Many insects have copper-based green blood.  The ant that I looked at under the microscope had iron-based red blood, which makes sense.  Iron-based blood is more efficient and is better for a high-energy creature like an ant.)

(post number 17777 = 29 * 613)

[Eulaha L. Long]

Beautiful, CAgirl! You've said it all.

Nursing depression in long-term support groups does not cure it. Even with severe depression, you have to get going again even when it doesn't seem that you are getting anywhere. Go through the motions, structure your life to have some control over it, but you can't just sit. There are many people with chronic depression who  work. There are many people with chronic diseases who work. People with Parkinson's Disease work. Blind people work. Deaf people work (full-time vet). A woman with one arm works as a chashier. A woman with sarcoidosis worked with oxygen until the day she died.  I could go on and on. A bi-polar woman, with a B.A. degree,  works as a very respected teacher aide at the high school level. She is not listless, as was a suggested result of medicating a bi-polar patient. in someone else's post!

Anyone else, don't tell me that I don't know, because I've been there with situational and chemically imbalanced depression. The one who helped me the most, and who I thought was cruel at the time, was a friend who wasn't afraid to tell the truth. The other one was a doctor(GP) who had been through a major breakdown and suffered through depressive episodes for the rest of his life and learned how to live in spite of them. Those closest to me mocked me, stigmatized me, and held me up to be a unfaithful example of a Christian.   

Someone wants to talk "post traumatic stress syndrome"? A lot of us have stories to tell, and the afteraffects of them.  I think that stress causes our bodies to age more quickly. I have ailments, too, but I'm going until it doesn't work anymore. Am I bragging? NO. But I am determined.

Support groups can help you accept yourself and your problems, especially when no one else can, and when you believe in your mind that God also has left you, but support groups as a way of life just keeps the pus oozing.

Ok...I understand that YES-there are people with one arm who can work, people who are deaf can work, etc...however, that doesn't necessarily mean that people suffering from mental illness can work too.  There ARE people with mental illness who can and do work, and I applaude them.  But there is also that handful of people who can not.  Who are we to judge another?

I will work when I am mentally stable enough to work.  I have not been "tooting my own horn".  The decisions concerning my health are recommended by a doctor with whom I have worked closely with for over three years.  Trust me-this man, a trained professional, could easily see if I were "faking it" or not!

I used to be one of those people that got mad because I was working and others were on assistance.  Although there are some who abuse the system, not everyone does.  Research DOES back this up!

[Eulaha L. Long]

This letter is being shared with permission from Lenore.  Please read it and decide for yourselves if she is able to work (not that it's really anyone's business)  The red areas are my doing, I thought it should be highlighted...

                                                     *******************************


Hello Eulaha:
Welcome to Canada.
 
I am still stinging a bit and angry to boot over being raked over the coals, and it is not so fun to watch people talk about you, as if you weren't going to ease drop into the conversation.
 
I tear up, when I see [hear] the support that I received.
 
I thank you for your concern, I appreciated it. 
 
I will tell you a bit about my depression.

Every time the chronic depression gets a hold of me , I get contemplating suicide.

A year ago, my youngest daughter moved out. She is dont die. She and I couldn't get a long, I make a lot of mistakes , I feel quilty about that. But I am coming to the realization, I DID THE BEST I COULD WITH WHAT I HAD AT THE TIME.

I am working on not being the VICTIM, I have been abused as a child, as a wife, and as  mother.
I also been emotionally abused by an employer.

 
I go to the Community Mental Health Organization, where I received counselling.  But it is also a socialization group, with activities.

I am high functioning. But there are others who are not.
It is a fun time, which I have had very little of.

I am on social assistance, and live in social housing.

I am applying for disability.

 
Not only my chronic depression, which is always there, never leaves me.

I also have a severe bladder problem.
Which I can change my clothes several times a day despite bladder control protection.  I was ridiculed in my last job for odor, despite bathing, powdering, and perfuming.

I am also obese, but I am getting the exercise to help tone me up to make me fit, to strength me physically. I am working on me, to improve me, so one day I can get a job and support myself. What ever that will be? I have limitations.
 
I am also severely hearing impaired and going worse.

I also have chronic fatigue, and severe arthritic pain. So the Yoga which was only for 8 weeks, is really helping me in that area. It is funny, too Yoga is also a great confident booster, which I was having some pride in myself for being able to do it. At least until Saturday, as if it was something shameful that I shouldnt be doing.

Again bowling is for socialization, and getting exercise.
 
I only been doing all these activities for a year, thanks to the Community Mental Health Clinic of which I am a client.
 
I have even been fortunate enough to have been asked by the above organization to go on  few conference trips, all expenses paid, workshop is called RECOVERY BASED MENTAL ILLNESS. It is an opportunity to  learn about my  illness.
 
I would love to be able to go back to school, because I love to learn.

My barriers are I dont drive. And in Ontario. You pay for your own secondary education. I am already in debt severely, SO getting a loan will not be easy.
 
Recently I have been crying to God, to help me out of the social assistance , to be able to afford my own house, to help me with my fractured family, but He keeps telling me to be contented. I want to be able to pay off my debts.
I would love to be able to go to school. I would love to be self supporting.

On Saturday, with Brent's prejudice, it just reinforced to me what a failure I was. I failed as a parent, I failed as a provider, I failed........
That is one of the lies that is wheeling in my brain , that I have been working on that I am not a failure. I am worth something.
 
You know something. Why is it that people look down on social assistance people if they  have a microwave?  I purchased my microwave 15 years ago, with a income tax return. I pay for my animal vaccination shots with my income tax return. Canadian get rebates from the government for the Sales tax.

Even if I could afford the cablevision, or if I am paying the Internet. What is it to people, that we choose to buy with our social assistance support money?
If I choose not to have steak for a meal, and buy something that would make me appear "normal", why can't they see, that it is an attempt to be a part of the accepted society, which is stupid I know.
 
Why are people so narrow-minded that they cannot accept?  There were a couple of postings of Brent's that I dont understand. Well he didnt want to understand. He had his mind set on what social assistance people are all about. He didnt want to learn the in's and out's of a person on social assistance.
 
YOU MAY SHARE THIS WITH THE BB, anything I am telling you.
Sorry , I am a writer, so any letter you receive from me will get into a book length. that's the way I am.
 
I am doing better, I am like a moth to the flame.I keep checking out the BB.
I enjoy it.  I didnt know that people were making fun of me.-
 
I heard you were completing your education. GREAT NEWS!. It is a wonderful achievement.
Severe depression is no picnic. It is hard to sometimes even wanting to get out of bed. Some time you don't get out of bed. Because you body, and your mind, tells you that you are unable to get out of bed. You become exhausted physically and mentally.
 
Here in Ontario, Canada, we dont receive food stamps. We receive a lump sum of money. The maximum a single person can receive is $535. And that will flunctuate from month to month, on what my utilities bills are.
If I pay lower, I receive lower, If I pay higher I get higher. I have been as low as $425 for the month.
When I was raising my girls all I able to get was a part- time minimum wage jobs. I got a little more social assistance when my girls were living with me. I enjoyed working. I especially enjoyed working with the public, and for the jobs I had in the last 15 years, it was meeting the public.

I loved my last job at the drug store, but that was the job, that even put me on report for having a smell. And I was falsely accused of something I know I didn't do. WHen I cried, I was ridiculed for crying. That was one year ago. It was the year my daughter left my house, and went to live with a Christian couple who are friends of my. I end up with a mild breakdown, a year after suffering a major one. It has taken me a year as a client of the Community Mental Health to get to the point where I was bragging on my "Daily Chatting" posts.
I just want to socialize with you people on the BB. Sharing my life. I didn't think I was being scorned, and ridiculed, and made fun of.

There is so much negativity on the BB. I wanted to be in a place of getting to know each other better. I guess I failed in that one too.
 
I wrote back to Brent in a post called A PERSONAL LETTER TO:

It was my anger and pain and hurt that was speaking, but I hope it wasnt too harsh, and I hope people on the BB, would take it as such, as venting out all my hurt that is inside.

Brent is also a liar. I did apology for calling him Hilter. It is in one of the Post, I can remember which one, that I enter a conversation without understanding what was being read first. That is the second experience with Brent's overbearing attitude. But I will give him that- he didnt remember.
 
I want to say thank you for writing, I will keep your email on my address book if that is okay with you. You may receive e-cards from time to time.
 
Thanks again.
 
Yours in Christ.
 
Lenore

[editor]

Ok...I understand that YES-there are people with one arm who can work, people who are deaf can work, etc...however, that doesn't necessarily mean that people suffering from mental illness can work too.  There ARE people with mental illness who can and do work, and I applaude them.  But there is also that handful of people who can not.  Who are we to judge another?

I will work when I am mentally stable enough to work.  I have not been "tooting my own horn".  The decisions concerning my health are recommended by a doctor with whom I have worked closely with for over three years.  Trust me-this man, a trained professional, could easily see if I were "faking it" or not!

I used to be one of those people that got mad because I was working and others were on assistance.  Although there are some who abuse the system, not everyone does.  Research DOES back this up!

Hi Eulaha,

If a person can't work, they can't work.  Virtually every person is limited in some way with regard to what they can do for work.  For example, I am physically unable to be an NBA basketball player.  No amount of support and recovery could ever make me capable.  I can, however, do other things.

I look at it this way,  if a person is physically capable of doing certain things, but has a hard time with others, they should look for a job that fits into the category of things they can do.

Sometimes, that means starting off at "the bottom."  I've done fast food, telemarketing, construction clean-up, dishwashing, curb number painting, horse stable mucking, window washing, pizza making, chiropractic and poker.

My favorite so far is Chiropractic, with curb painting being the most flexible.  Poker is showing some signs of promise.

If someone can walk, talk and reason at some level, there is some type of work that they can do.  

On the other hand, if a person is too sick to stand, sit, talk, or reason, they can't work.  It's that simple.

The problem is when people who are capable of being productive, for one reason or the other, choose not to work.  It's that type of person that this thread is targeting.  We don't want to be like that.

I think you should concentrate on getting your degree this year, as you stated below.  Try to get some part-time work ASAP, if you are physically able.  All the research I have read states that education and work are key components in the recovery from mental illness and depression.

I always thought it would be fun to be an all-night gas station attendant.  You hardly do anything, and can read and be on the Internet.  (I'm not saying you should do this, just that it sounds fun to me.)

Brent

[editor]

Walter Williams is a professor of economics, he's also black, not that it matters.

Is It Theft?

Suppose I knew an elderly lady who needed prescription drugs but didn't have enough money to buy them. So I walk up to one of you viewers and threaten, "Give me $100 or I'm going to do some kind of harm to you!" Having relieved you of your $100, I purchase that lady's prescriptions. Would you see me as a compassionate individual or just a plain common thief, regardless of what I did with your money? But don't answer yet.

Suppose before I relieved you of your money, I got a majority yea vote among me and ten other people that I should do so, would that help you decide whether I was committing an act of compassion or an act of theft? Suppose it was 100 people who agreed, a thousand, or 100 million people who agreed that I should take your money for the benefit of some other American, would that change anything? In other words, does a consensus or even legality determine whether a given act is right or wrong?

I know what you're thinking: If Congress doesn't take people's money, how in the world is that lady in need of prescriptions going to be helped? I say reaching into your own pocket to help another is compassionate and praiseworthy. Reaching into somebody else's pocket is theft and there's no two ways about it.

I'm Walter Williams

Nightly Business Report
February 2002
Return to Commentaries Page

[moonflower2]

Hi Eulaha,

If a person can't work, they can't work.  Virtually every person is limited in some way with regard to what they can do for work.  For example, I am physically unable to be an NBA basketball player.  No amount of support and recovery could ever make me capable.  I can, however, do other things.

I look at it this way,  if a person is physically capable of doing certain things, but has a hard time with others, they should look for a job that fits into the category of things they can do.

Sometimes, that means starting off at "the bottom."  I've done fast food, telemarketing, construction clean-up, dishwashing, curb number painting, horse stable mucking, window washing, pizza making, chiropractic and poker.

My favorite so far is Chiropractic, with curb painting being the most flexible.  Poker is showing some signs of promise.

If someone can walk, talk and reason at some level, there is some type of work that they can do.  

On the other hand, if a person is too sick to stand, sit, talk, or reason, they can't work.  It's that simple.

The problem is when people who are capable of being productive, for one reason or the other, choose not to work.  It's that type of person that this thread is targeting.  We don't want to be like that.

I think you should concentrate on getting your degree this year, as you stated below.  Try to get some part-time work ASAP, if you are physically able.  All the research I have read states that education and work are key components in the recovery from mental illness and depression.

I always thought it would be fun to be an all-night gas station attendant.  You hardly do anything, and can read and be on the Internet.  (I'm not saying you should do this, just that it sounds fun to me.)

Brent

Brent, since this thread is continuing, I just wanted to add that I noticed the same things about the Mexicans living in my town, that you noticed about the illegals in your area.The majority of them in my town are legal and everyone in the house is working. They will do any job.

It reminded me of the first job that my grandfather had in America. He collected cinders in an open wagon and dumped them in the landfill area at the lake front during the incredibly cold Chicago winters. He and his brother made enough money in one year to pay for the passage of the rest of the family. Family totaled 13 people, not including a brother's wife and kids. He continued with the job of cleaning up horse crap in an open wagon and later started his own garbage business, which his sons then took over for a while. They used to joke about it, and referred to themselves as "sanitary engineers".

They started out living in what looked like a ghetto, but eventually  moved to the suburbs, where his sons grew up and eventually found jobs in each of their fields of interest and ability. What he did still amazes me, and I guess I'm just kind of lighting a candle for him (if I were a Catholic). 

[editor]

Brent, since this thread is continuing, I just wanted to add that I noticed the same things about the Mexicans living in my town, that you noticed about the illegals in your area.The majority of them in my town are legal and everyone in the house is working. They will do any job.

It reminded me of the first job that my grandfather had in America. He collected cinders in an open wagon and dumped them in the landfill area at the lake front during the incredibly cold Chicago winters. He and his brother made enough money in one year to pay for the passage of the rest of the family. Family totaled 13 people, not including a brother's wife and kids. He continued with the job of cleaning up horse crap in an open wagon and later started his own garbage business, which his sons then took over for a while. They used to joke about it, and referred to themselves as "sanitary engineers".

They started out living in what looked like a ghetto, but eventually  moved to the suburbs, where his sons grew up and eventually found jobs in each of their fields of interest and ability. What he did still amazes me, and I guess I'm just kind of lighting a candle for him (if I were a Catholic). 

America has a rich legacy of hard work, risk taking, and people who made a huge difference.  People would have never considered welfare at one time.  They took care of eachother, and didn't dream that it was the governments job to do what was the purview of family and church.

Do you feel that you were mentally ill at one time?  Are you still mentally ill?


Brent

[moonflower2]

America has a rich legacy of hard work, risk taking, and people who made a huge difference.  People would have never considered welfare at one time.  They took care of eachother, and didn't dream that it was the governments job to do what was the purview of family and church.

Do you feel that you were mentally ill at one time?  Are you still mentally ill?


Brent

Looking back, I believe that I was for a time.

Am I now?? If I am, I don't know the name for it!  Do I sound like I am now ?? Have you perceived something strange about my posts??? Am I now? JUST WHAT ARE YOU IMPLYING!!!  WHAT EXACTLY DO YOU MEAN BY THAT QUESTION!! Hey, what's going on here anyway? You work for the FBI? KGB? who are you really? Who else is in on this?

   Because of my sense of humor, some think I am.  But that's okay. It's a stress reliever.    Is Jim Carrey mentally ill? Is Robin Williams? Was Andy Kaufman? Is "whose line is it" for the sane? 

No, I'm okay now, I think, unless I just don't know the name for it.

 I have a tendency toward depression, but it seems to be tied to my health and the genes. I can't do as much as most people. I've got a negative self-perception, like Lenore does, and it's an uphill battle that never really is finished.

I think that getting out and working and just focusing on something else, is a big help for something like depression, (including serious depression) which seems to be the most common ailment around. At one time, I worked 6 hours/week at a warehouse that packaged food, etc., that was given away free. Our pay was two bags of free food every two weeks. My kids thought it was great: Free surprise food. 

Moon's prescription for what ails you: Do something.

So did I answer your question completely? Are you satisfied, now? Can I leave, or do you want my fingerprints? Have I now received my membership and badge of honor for this BB?       Or do you want more bloody details so you can evaluate me? 

 

[editor]

Looking back, I believe that I was for a time.

Am I now?? If I am, I don't know the name for it!  Do I sound like I am now ?? Have you perceived something strange about my posts??? Am I now? JUST WHAT ARE YOU IMPLYING!!!  WHAT EXACTLY DO YOU MEAN BY THAT QUESTION!! Hey, what's going on here anyway? You work for the FBI? KGB? who are you really? Who else is in on this?

   Because of my sense of humor, some think I am.  But that's okay. It's a stress reliever.    Is Jim Carrey mentally ill? Is Robin Williams? Was Andy Kaufman? Is "whose line is it" for the sane? 

No, I'm okay now, I think, unless I just don't know the name for it.

 I have a tendency toward depression, but it seems to be tied to my health and the genes. I can't do as much as most people. I've got a negative self-perception, like Lenore does, and it's an uphill battle that never really is finished.

I think that getting out and working and just focusing on something else, is a big help for something like depression, (including serious depression) which seems to be the most common ailment around. At one time, I worked 6 hours/week at a warehouse that packaged food, etc., that was given away free. Our pay was two bags of free food every two weeks. My kids thought it was great: Free surprise food. 

Moon's prescription for what ails you: Do something.

So did I answer your question completely? Are you satisfied, now? Can I leave, or do you want my fingerprints? Have I now received my membership and badge of honor for this BB?       Or do you want more bloody details so you can evaluate me? 

You don't seem mentally ill at all.  However, I have a theorey that most people who are chronicly depressed start out mildly depressed and learn to be chroniclly depressed by poor choices and acting depressed. 

I've seen people who go both ways, and they overcome or succomb, depending on how hard they try to act normal.

My wife beat her "mental illness" by acting normal, and NOT taking meds, even though she was massively chemically imbalanced.  She did take sleeping pills, only when needed.

CAgirl has a similiar story to yours. 
Some people have it much worse, but I wonder how many people get "much worse" as a result of practicing being depressed or mentally ill?

It would be incredibly depressing just hanging around the support groups full of depressed people! I always tell my kids to associate with "good" kids, because I know that the company we keep has a huge influence on who we are.

Anyone wanting to be successful in business knows to talk to people who are successful, not to those who failed.  You must model success, not failure.

Brent

[moonflower2]

Whew! I'm glad I passed the test.

I agree about the choices.

I didn't want to be on any meds, but I couldn't slow my mind and I didn't have adult support during the day, so I was prescribed amytriptiline, which had a mild sedative affect on me. I will still take it at night, when I feel that I cannot put the brakes on. I have never had a sleeping pill. I have a strange and probably unneccesary fear of them.

My mother was tentatively diagnosed to be bi-polar after her final successful suicide attempt, and I wonder if there is a much milder form of that? Just how genetic is that disorder??

[editor]

Whew! I'm glad I passed the test.

I agree about the choices.

I didn't want to be on any meds, but I couldn't slow my mind and I didn't have adult support during the day, so I was prescribed amytriptiline, which had a mild sedative affect on me. I will still take it at night, when I feel that I cannot put the brakes on. I have never had a sleeping pill. I have a strange and probably unneccesary fear of them.

My mother was tentatively diagnosed to be bi-polar after her final successful suicide attempt, and I wonder if there is a much milder form of that? Just how genetic is that disorder??

There are at least two schools of thought about mental illness: It is learned, or it is genetic.  It's not quite that simple, but that's good enough to say that we don't really know why people become mentally ill, many times.

Alchoholism is similiar.  People think it's a disease, others think its learned behavior, and others look at it like it's the sin of drunkeness.

In the main, we seem to have bought the idea that it's genetic, along with compulsive gambling and shopping.  Then there are those that talk about "addictive personalities."

Here's a controversial thought among evangelicals.  If homosexuality is sin, and I believe it is, why do we look at laziness as an illness?  I mean, if one character trait is sin, and another is genetic or due to a "mental illness," how can we ever decide which is which?  Do we condemn the homosexuals and "support" alchoholics? 

I'm not communicating that clearly, because it's late, but hopefully someone sees what i am driving at.

Ultimately, it comes down to whether or not we believe that a person can be healed by God.  Is salvation merely a theoretical, theological status, or does being saved actually change something about us?

We all have besetting sins.  However, we can't all blame our sins on illness.  Have we been saved from the power of sin or not?

Brent

When you boil it down, there is no proof one way or the other.  Is it genetic, or does someone learn how to be mentally ill from modelling their parents?

Brent