MENTAL ILLNESS

[David Mauldin]

   Living in the Assembly for over 15 years I am not sure if I can differentiate between what is normal and what is psychotic. But I will attempt to get a grasp on a current situation at work. A student of mine (I teach 3rd grade) is exhibiting symptoms of paranoia. (They are not what I would consider to be seriously hindering her life-yet!) I have talked to her previous teachers and they all have identified the behavior themselves. In 1985 I completed a two month internship at Fairfield Hills State Mental Hospital in Newtown, Connecticut. This experience gave me a tremendous amount of awareness of the disease? disorder? manipulation? itself.  However I was unaware at the time that mental disorders were so prevalent among children. Since I have been teaching I have noticed many students who demonstrate classic symptoms of mental illness. Knowing as much as I do about mental illness gives me little hope for this child's future as ever being normal. I can only hope that she will be able to identify it on her own and then take the actions appropriate to her symptoms.  Is anyone here experienced with mental illness among children? Any advice?

[vernecarty]

   Living in the Assembly for over 15 years I am not sure if I can differentiate between what is normal and what is psychotic. But I will attempt to get a grasp on a current situation at work. A student of mine (I teach 3rd grade) is exhibiting symptoms of paranoia. (They are not what I would consider to be seriously hindering her life-yet!) I have talked to her previous teachers and they all have identified the behavior themselves. In 1985 I completed a two month internship at Fairfield Hills State Mental Hospital in Newtown, Connecticut. This experience gave me a tremendous amount of awareness of the disease? disorder? manipulation? itself.  However I was unaware at the time that mental disorders were so prevalent among children. Since I have been teaching I have noticed many students who demonstrate classic symptoms of mental illness. Knowing as much as I do about mental illness gives me little hope for this child's future as ever being normal. I can only hope that she will be able to identify it on her own and then take the actions appropriate to her symptoms.  Is anyone here experienced with mental illness among children? Any advice?

I would advise caution. So many childeren today are abused or come from horrific home lives that it is virtually impossible for them to function as normal healthy children.
I would not assume the illness in necessarily mental until and unless so diagnosed by a professional.
The drug industry is on a terrific campaign to enhance their profits by the more frequent prescriptioin of drugs for children, whom they now view as a new and untapped customer base. The number of kids on drugs for ADD for example, is a scandal.
Verne

[David Mauldin]

  Vern, Let me assure you I am not diagnosing/treating her illness (She is due to see a counsler) What I am fishing for here is anyone willing to share their stories. Anyone who might have identified mental illness in children in their experiences within the  Assembly/family/friends?

[vernecarty]

  Vern, Let me assure you I am not diagnosing/treating her illness (She is due to see a counsler) What I am fishing for here is anyone willing to share their stories. Anyone who might have identified mental illness in children in their experiences within the  Assembly/family/friends?

On some level David, what happened to many of us in the assemblies could at least be described as aberrant, if not outright illness. The litany has been rehashed numerous times and I need not repeat it, but the thing that was most strange was that so many stood by and allowed their loved ones to be destroyed, children, spouses, etc. We allowed assembly leadership pursue a stragey, devised of course by George himself of splintering families and neutering heads of households, namely the husbands. What would any normal husband think of a minister of the gospel requesting or accepting foot rubs from his bride? That is about as sick as it gets in my view.
I do not want to be specific, but I have heard of some situations even here in Champaign invovling adults, that in my mind seemed to be serious enough to require professional help. So far as assembly children is concerned, the results speak for themsleves. I am not sure how one separates what I would consider spiritual injury from mental illness as their manifestaion may be indistinguishable to one without special training. Several of my dearest friends from assembly days have kids who will simply have nothing to do with religion of any sort.
Tragic!  I hope that helps a bit David.
Verne

[David Mauldin]

I appreciate your response, however I was thinking more in the line of children who exhibit scizophrenia ie... halucinations, paranoia, irrational fears, deviant behaviors etc...I don't think I witnessed anything like this in the Assembly (who knows how much of this stuff may have been kept hidden) Interresting side question; Was mental illness ever considered a legitimate issue in the assembly? Or rather was it always a spiritual issue? As a public school teacher I have witnessed these symptoms. Has anyone else? What was your involvement?  How was it handled?

[vernecarty]

I appreciate your response, however I was thinking more in the line of children who exhibit scizophrenia ie... halucinations, paranoia, irrational fears, deviant behaviors etc...I don't think I witnessed anything like this in the Assembly (who knows how much of this stuff may have been kept hidden) Interresting side question; Was mental illness ever considered a legitimate issue in the assembly? Or rather was it always a spiritual issue? As a public school teacher I have witnessed these symptoms. Has anyone else? What was your involvement?  How was it handled?

The specific things I have heard teacher friends of mine mention are overt hostility and aggression and and being extremely withdrawn and un-responsive to the learning process. I am told that there is generally strong correlaton to the situation at home. The specific symptoms you menton I have not observed personally so cannot contribute much in that regard. I must say I would be quite surprised at a diagnosis of schizophrenia in a child. I think in the assembly many leaders were too ignorant and arrogant to recognize some of these problems have an orgnic orgin and nothing to do with a person's spiritual condition.
Verne

[David Mauldin]

   Vern,  I have had a number of students who talk to....?   themselves out loud,.... to an invisible friend!... Jesus?... God?   Some of them seem to be involved in another world!  Ex:  They are engaged in a scene where they are interacting with imaginary friends/foes!   I have to interrupt their fantasy and say things like, "EXCUSE ME!"  "LET'S FOCUS ON OUR WORK!!!" O.K. its just an overly vivid imagination but then again?  Who knows?  I have also had a number of students who constatnly draw strange morbid pictures. Violent death a common theme.  O.K. its just art but 4th grade???  twenty years ago these kids would have been in special ed. but their is so little funding for those things in our district. O.K. I'll shut up.

[M2]

Hi David M,

Re. mental disorders, I have observed that it is often because of a stressful home situation.  Some are physically handicapped in some way or another.  As a volunteer at school I discovered that I could not help those kids since my time with them was sooo limited.  As a teacher you do have the advantage ot time added to the fact that you care for these kids.

Focus on the Family published 'Teacher of the Year' Guy Doud's inspiring story a few years ago.  See:
http://www.family.org/resources/itempg.cfm?itemid=525
Molder of Dreams by Guy Doud

A number of years ago, I had a friend who suffered from paranoia schizo.. etc.  It was next to impossible to help her.  IMO she had too many counsellors who sometimes gave her differing advice which then confused her.
Another school kid I know suffers from mental problems, and even with counselling she remains a social misfit.  It is all quite sad really.  Maybe there is a case to be made for one on one de-programming.

Marcia

[lenore]

April 18:

I hope I can put my two cents into this discussion on mental illnesses.
Since I experience a form of mental illnesses, and am a consumer of the system which includes counselling, pyschriatrist, support groups.

Marcia: It sound the one you were describing, maybe dependent upon the support of others.
The confusion is not being able to weed out what advice is for her or not. I know sometimes I think I can be a social worker because of my involvement with them.
I have learned since my breakdown two years ago. That you have to be involved in your own recovery progress. Research. My counsellor at the Community Mental Health Clinic, says I am high functioning. I attend the center with the others, for meals, activities, field trips, gym, swimming, bowling and my workshop conference trips.
It is taking an active role in your own recovery is the key, but is also acceptance of the illness.Mental Illnesses is just like any other illness. Just like Diabetics who require insulin daily to control the disease, so they can function , so does mental illnesses requires medication daily to be able to control their disease to be able to function.

Mental Illnesses still has the stigma, because of lack of knowledge on the subject.

Mental Illnesses can be genetics, a chemical imbalance with in the brain like bi polar or manic depressive symptoms.  It is only medication that will balance the imbalance. It is vital that medication be taken and monitored.

Others is post trauma syndrome. No matter what the cause of mental illnesses. The person needs respect and acceptance. Quite often it is the not acceptance of the illness that hinder recovery, because of guilt, shame, rejection, or people tip toeing around them. Mental Illnesses is no contagious. It is treatable. It is in acceptance of the people who they are. The mental illnesses is a factor of they have to deal with. The person is not the mental illnesses.
A listening ear and accepting attitude, and loving heart, and a shoulder to lean on is usually what a person who suffers from mental illnesses needs .

Ok I put more than my two cents in. Experience speaks.

Lenore

[M2]

....
Marcia: It sound the one you were describing, maybe dependent upon the support of others.
The confusion is not being able to weed out what advice is for her or not. I know sometimes I think I can be a social worker because of my involvement with them.
I have learned since my breakdown two years ago. That you have to be involved in your own recovery progress. Research. My counsellor at the Community Mental Health Clinic, says I am high functioning. I attend the center with the others, for meals, activities, field trips, gym, swimming, bowling and my workshop conference trips.
It is taking an active role in your own recovery is the key, but is also acceptance of the illness.Mental Illnesses is just like any other illness. Just like Diabetics who require insulin daily to control the disease, so they can function , so does mental illnesses requires medication daily to be able to control their disease to be able to function.
....

Lenore, this was my opinion too about my friend.  However she was/is an adult.  Children need the support of others, so the equation does change a bit.

God bless,
Marcia

[vernecarty]

This matter of mental ilness is clearly a matter of degree. I suspect all the extreme manifestations requiring professional intervention are present in all of us, if only in very mild form; even those considering ourselves to be fairly sane folk. This is the legacy of our fallen nature.
I remember how this point was so starkly driven home to me one day when I got upset over some trivial thing that my youngest daughter had done. She is a real explorer and does not think she really knows what something is unless she has taken it completely apart - not good for delicate digital equipment.
Clearly not all anger is irrational; I could not fully explain to you why, but it hit me like a ton of bricks that expending emotional energy over an item that was replaceable was irrational.
It is one of the great things about being in fellowship with godly people, who can gently point out things to you about yourself that you may be entirely unaware of. We need one another.
To be excluded from the fellowship of true saints of God is very severe. I have seen what happens to people thus deprived (sometimes by their own choice) and it is not pretty...
Verne

[al Hartman]

This matter of mental ilness is clearly a matter of degree. I suspect all the extreme manifestations requiring professional intervention are present in all of us, if only in very mild form; even those considering ourselves to be fairly sane folk. This is the legacy of our fallen nature.

I couldn't agree more, Verne.  Denial is the work of the enemy of our souls.  The person who claims to be perfectly balanced places himself beyond help...

I remember how this point was so starkly driven home to me one day when I got upset over some trivial thing that my youngest daughter had done. She is a real explorer and does not think she really knows what something is unless she has taken it completely apart - not good for delicate digital equipment.
Clearly not all anger is irrational; I could not fully explain to you why, but it hit me like a ton of bricks that expending emotional energy over an item that was replaceable was irrational.

I must confess that I have had to experience that "ton of bricks" more than once!  There is nothing-- no thing-- as precious as a living soul.  What are we thinking sometimes?

It is one of the great things about being in fellowship with godly people, who can gently point out things to you about yourself that you may be entirely unaware of. We need one another.

But we must always bear in mind that "gently" is in the eye of the beholder-- I have far too frequently bristled so at the message of criticism that I missed the fact that it was meant to be constructive and had been delivered in a spirit of love and concern.  Likewise, my own attempts at gentleness have been sometimes received with an eye toward some reprehensible past behavior of mine, rather than consideration of the present. 

"We need one another" cannot be overstated!

To be excluded from the fellowship of true saints of God is very severe. I have seen what happens to people thus deprived (sometimes by their own choice) and it is not pretty...
Verne

Been there, done that (or perhaps I should just say, "been that").  "Not pretty" is more than generous-- it is ugly beyond description, inside and out...

al

[David Mauldin]

   "I DON'T THINK I AM NAPOLEN! I KNOW I AM NAPOLEON!"  Before starting my internship at Fairfield Hills I had to attend a series of classes. One particular thing said that has always stuck with me is, "When a person being evaluated denies that he/she has ever had fantasys about being someone else Ex:  "Have you ever fantasized about being a rock star etc.."  "Oh, No!" "Never!"  Then this is a sure sign of mental illness."  I really think G.G. falls into this category.  His denial of any responsiblity tells me that he really believes his illusions about hmself."  I am the Lord's servant, blah, blah, blah,..." I guess my point here is just to acknowledge we all have some level of confusions about reality.  Yet, some more than others!

[al Hartman]

David, I realize that we are ranging far afield of your original question, but I think it is evident that, as non-professionals, we have little direct help to offer you.  I have an autistic granddaughter an a Down Syndrome nephew, but can think of nothing I have learned that would be of practical use to you.

In my own thinking, the fact that you see these symptoms in your students and care enough to be concerned and seek advice is the greatest advantage.  In the past, and even today, there are many who can't or are unwilling to face the challenge of addressing these realities.  God bless you in your endeavors on their behalf.

al

P.S.-- just read your latest post here-- excellent observation!

[lenore]

APRIL 30:

I have re read some of these posts in this topic:

It is so hard to have a child who has a mental illness. It is hard to the child as well, because some adults have a hard time articulating about what is going on inside.

A child with mental illnesses needs understanding and support from parents, medical field, social work field, and school system.

Children act out their feelings, and then they are label as a behaviour problem. Even upon diagnosis, there is the stigma and fear, because of ignorance and intolerance and misunderstanding of the disease. Frequently because children can be the cruelest things on earth, will bully and ostracized a child who is different, with name calling and prejudical actions of their own.

Even adults with certain diagnosis, because of the choice of not taking their medication, have no reasoning judgements to counteract the effects of the disease and it shows in their behaviours.

So to have a child diagnosis with a serious mental illnesses, the parent needs encouragement and support as well, to help them with the burdens of meeting the child's extra special needs.
Our prayers to our Heavenly Physican, to assist the ones who are going through the illness, because a child with this disease, the whole family goes through the disease [at least according to Dr. Phil} the comfort of God, who can has the biggest shoulders on earth, can be totally depended on to go on this journey with parents and child.

I am learning now, not to offer too much advice, it is a listening ear that is the best support.
I can only offer experience , and my experience is unique to me, and the experience that a child going through a mental illness is unique to that child.

Prayers for the child/children/and parents, that encouragement, support, and understanding will be forth coming to strengthen you on this journey.

Lenore