Do you remember back when you first were saved? (30 years in Oct. for me) Do you remember the first scriptures that you studied? Before you waded out and swam into the deep waters of doctrine and studied deeper things, you walked along the beach as you became accustomed to the waters; simpler concepts.
Dear Gay,
While I agree with you regarding the unfortunate, heartbreaking bickering that goes on, I would like to attempt to get you to see a few things from a different point of view.
As far as I know, most of the people on this forum are saved, and contrary to what you say above, have NEVER waded into the deep waters of sound doctrine.
To the contrary, what most of us did after salvation was wade into the deep evil of a cultic apostate.In the case of those who claim to have been sound in the faith prior to joining up with George, their long association with him completely negates whatever claim they may make about their soundness at the time. Only foolish believers, with serious problems, lapse from real faith into Geftakysism. For the most part, all of us went from an ill-founded faith into a cult.
If anyone here believes themselves to have "waded into the deep waters of doctrine," I don't believe a word of their claim if they are unable to judge themselves with regard to their enabling and vigorous service for George.
I pay little attention anymore to a person who is able to judge George, or David. We can all do that, and while that's a start, we need to rightly judge ourselves in order to be sound in the faith. I am highly suspect of those who claim, "I saw through George," and spent years doing nothing about it. They may have "seen" George, but they certainly didn't see themselves, and probably still can't.
However many scriptures such a person may be able to play with, their views on things are muddled, at best. They were wrong about George and totally lacking in discernment then, and may be quite WRONG AGAIN.
While I understand your gentle, sincere admonition regarding love, and your plea to return to the "simple" concepts, I must say a thing or two here.
The same addled minds that fell for George Geftakys, use this passage and many others like it to avoid reality and extinguish any light that may happen to shine on them in such a way that it reveals who they really are.Instead of RIGHTLY judging themselves, they twist a passage like this in order to WRONGLY judge anyone who upsets their spiritual self-image. More messengers have been shot to avoid hearing the message with passages about "love for the brethren," and "gentle speech," than any other. Case in point:
Workers, elders and Fullerton Leading brothers sat under George and endured his abuse for years....decades even. Most of them could/would not see who he was or what he was doing. They severely violated their own consciences to the point of searing them.... no other explanation will do.
If their moral and doctrinal compass was so flawed at that time, to the point where they failed to recognize the horror that they were serving with all their might....there is a strong likelihood that they are WRONG AGAIN with whatever doctrinal points they are trying to make now.
The exception to this is to be found in those who can clearly judge themselves and admit to what they have done. (A person who has done that has no problem admitting that they misread a post and then went on a fanciful journey into mistaking one word for another while slandering someone. That's not a simple mistake, and shouldn't take a sustained chorus of words in order to get them to see what they have done.) Can you imagine a person who won't admit a small thing like this actually comprehending something as huge as their involvement with George? Look at this as a small example of the Big Picture.
A person, in this context, who has rightly judged himself, would not handle the passage of scripture in the manner you have above, and such a person would not confuse God's love for some kind of spiritually medicated evangelical tolerism, as Al has done countless times. Don't fall for it.
God is love. God's love is perfectly expressed in the fact that Christ died for us.
This same Christ insulted the religious leaders of His day, and called His own followers "foolish," "deaf," "stiffnecked," and "Satan." Furthermore, He used a whip on many of them, after destroying their property. Worse yet, speaking through one of His disciples, he called others of those who professed His name, "fools," "blind," and apostate!No doubt, many of the Pharisees would have employed 1 Corinthians 13 against Jesus, if they had it. They were quick to misuse such other scriptures as they had against Him. There was something wrong with their judgement, you see.So, the point I am trying to make is this:
Contrary to the predictable objection that arises against anyone who uses strong language to expose a hypocrite; that the person telling the truth is not "acting in love," the opposite is true. Allowing someone to blather on in self delusion is a radical violation of love. Had the Apostle Paul had this twisted view of love, he would not have written most of the New Testament!
Weenies and Jackasses will always fall back on this objection with regard to blunt truth. That is to be expected, and it happens in plenty more areas of life than Christian churches and BB's. It's human nature.
This BB is sick, the culture that has sprung up around it is sick, and the core group of posters (yes, that's me included) are doing nothing more than perpetuating many of the errors that got us into Georgeism. As long as we keep doing this, our lives will forever by hung up and defined by Geftakysism. Is that what you want?
We need to stop it. The worst thing we could do, is get all loving and "believing the best," and continue on in this nonsense. The loving thing to do is to say, "This BB is sick. It's not healthy. Don't go there."
Why am I still here? I'll get to that soon, before I leave.
Brent
